Strong Heart.
Aug. 11, 2022

Bruce Warren - Turning work into Passion

Bruce Warren - Turning work into Passion

Bruce Warren (World Café, WXPN Radio, Some Velvet Blog) is the Executive Producer of World Café and Assistant General Manager of WXPN radio in Philadelphia. Bruce joins Think Weird to discuss his 30+ years in the music business, the art of figuring out your passion, and why teaching is a form of learning. Bruce and Helen talk about the differences between careers and callings, music as scrapbooks of memory, and what it really means to work with a lens of equity. Bruce explains how to tell when you really love something, how record stores changed his life, and what it actually means to have a calling.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:08.160 My Name's Helen Garcia and you're listening to the think weird podcast. My Dad 2 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:13.919 was a sales he hated his life, he hated his freaky job. Growing 3 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:17.920 up, I would seem miserable all the time and a lot of it just 4 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.879 came down to me. I recognized so, like you know, what I 5 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:22.239 want to wake up every morning, to go to sleep every night, like 6 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:26.600 just feeling good about what I do and when I'm contributing to the world. 7 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:33.679 Welcome to think weird. I want to ask you this question. What were 8 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:38.399 you made to do? Better yet, what do you have to do? 9 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:46.759 My guest today is chief of all things from W XPN Radio, Bruce Warren. 10 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:51.920 He is part of the team that started at the legendary World Cafe, 11 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:58.240 and this episode is for the person that might be unsure about what they want 12 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:03.760 to do and, once permission to try and to experiment, to figure out 13 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:08.359 what you've made to do. So, without further ADO, here's my conversation 14 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:12.640 with Bruce. So you started out as an elementary school teacher and then you 15 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:17.319 became a chef for a couple of years and then you were volunteer at Xpn 16 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:21.519 for several years until you finally got the job. I think one of the 17 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:26.280 things I've learned is that you're someone who's utilized so many skill sets and then 18 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:30.000 worked at the same place for thirty five plus years. So can you tell 19 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:36.239 me a little bit about what you got from each profession and how it translates 20 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:40.519 to what you're doing now? My Dad was a salesperson. He hated his 21 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:46.200 life, he hated his freaking job. Growing up I would see him miserable 22 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.480 all the time and I was probably when I didn't even realize that I was 23 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:55.680 forming the future of Bruce Mare, and a lot of it just came down 24 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:57.159 to me. I recognized that I want to wake up every morning and go 25 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:02.000 to sleep every night just feel good about what I do and when I'm contributing 26 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:06.840 to the world. I did a local Ted talk six or seven years ago 27 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:13.520 and I talked about passion. I've always been driven by my passion about what 28 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.639 felt right in my heart and I felt really good about not to avoid the 29 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:22.719 crappy stuff in life, because Lord knows there's been that share of that. 30 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:28.000 So that that's really it. I I as a music can growing up. 31 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:31.800 The first night that I was a volunteer DJ AT W XP N I said, 32 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:35.759 yeah, I gotta learn how to get paid to do this. This 33 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:37.960 is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life, because it's 34 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:42.680 music. I wanted to turn my passion and there's a lot of analogy between 35 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:46.120 kind of what I did in the restaurant business and what I do at Xpn 36 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:53.960 in terms of creativity and helping people get through their day. He said once 37 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:58.080 in an interview with Kevin Schmidlin on Philly, who, I thought I was 38 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.759 going to be an elementary school teacher because I thought education would change the world. 39 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.520 I look back at your linkedin profile and you teach it, you pen 40 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:08.240 and you also teach it temple, where you graduated college. What inspired you 41 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:12.919 to start teaching again? Class said I wanted to get back I wanted to 42 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.800 build my world out a little bit more. I left teaching when I graduated 43 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:23.919 college because it's the bureaucracy. I couldn't stand it and it became more about 44 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:29.039 the bureaucracy than it was about helping children develop. My life is very consumed 45 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:36.520 by my work and I wanted something else. Wanted another intellectual and social opportunity 46 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:38.360 because, more on the intellectual side, when I got my message degree, 47 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:44.159 and fifteen years ago. Teaching is also learning. I just sided when you 48 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:47.599 try to teach, get back into teaching and work with students, undergraduates and 49 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:52.479 graduate student. You grew up in Philly your entire life. Why do you 50 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:54.759 stay? What is it about staying in the same city? I love it. 51 00:03:54.759 --> 00:04:00.240 It's diverse, it's small, it's Not New York. I can I'm 52 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.479 diverse things to do with less hassle than New York. I don't know why 53 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:06.560 I'm picking on New York. I never really stayed. I never really stayed 54 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:11.199 there long enough to get a real feel for it, but it's where my 55 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.840 family is. So I've always loved the music of Philly. I've always loved 56 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:19.319 the Culture Philly. I've always I've always loved the politics of Philly, whether 57 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.680 I agree with them or not, and the Culture Philly. So that's why 58 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:29.560 I stayed. He discovered your love of records and riding your bike across different 59 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:34.839 records stores where you are. It's really rare nowadays to stay in one place 60 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:42.240 for that long. I guess I adapted and continue to adapt. I don't 61 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.839 want to be a seven year old budget. I want to go as felt 62 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.120 good. I just turned I know that I'mant a young place in my life 63 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:56.639 where I still have room to grow and discover, and I remember you told 64 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:00.680 the story about starting out your job isn't elementary school teacher, and thinking that 65 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:06.079 you were going to change and revolutionize these kids lives and because of bureaucracy, 66 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:10.720 you realize that you couldn't do that. You shifted. For someone who is 67 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:14.680 looking for that pursuit of happiness, when do you know when to quit and 68 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:18.360 when do you know that it's right? Well, I'll speak from my experiences. 69 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:23.959 I knew you'd go into a career decision or if you decide to get 70 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:28.120 a master's degree in something, it's the further your passion it's to be able 71 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:32.680 to activate the things you love and the things you're passionate about. Bureaucracy killed 72 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:36.720 my love of revolutionizing the world for children. I knew it was time to 73 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:42.600 quit when the bureaucracy was getting too heavy for me in teaching. I I 74 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.959 knew it was time to quit in the restaurant business when I was physically exhausted. 75 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.959 It just got to the point where I just couldn't function anymore. But 76 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:57.360 there are things that inform your decision to quit or incisions to your decisions to 77 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.399 stay. And Hey, listen, I was five months till I was in 78 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.680 the restaurant business. I was making thirty thousand dollars eas year he started making 79 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:11.439 three, three dollars. Remember saying that, yeah, I was making an 80 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:15.279 hour. I tell people that. Now they go, how did you actually 81 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.000 survive? Well, things are much different than economically. Things were very, 82 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:23.360 very much different than and that. And I wanted to live on my own. 83 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:26.160 So I had to figure it out. I went I lived with a 84 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:29.600 friend, but I wanted I didn't want to live at home. So money, 85 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.800 money helps. Money is freedom sometimes. I'm not uger capitalist or anything 86 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:39.839 like that, but so I had to make it work. So I did. 87 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:44.000 I did. I remember I was at the restaurant for three months and 88 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:47.040 I got a ten cent hour raid, ten cent an hour raise, and 89 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:51.199 I felt I was a millionaire. My first job I was making I think 90 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:56.160 six bucks an hour. I was I think I was fourteen years old and 91 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.279 I remember getting fifty bucks that week and and just saving it out. Wow, 92 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:04.839 this is what it feels to make money doing what you love. You're 93 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:09.759 probably a million you probably a millionaire. I'm never going to get that moment 94 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:15.639 back or a thousand a yeah, exactly, but at the heart of everything 95 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:19.319 was I just didn't want to wind up like my dad. We didn't have 96 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:23.480 the greatest relationship in the world, but that being said, I loved him 97 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:29.560 and he took care of me and that's okay. So just being driven by 98 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.920 that kind of stuff. I appreciate your honesty. I feel how we watch 99 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:38.399 our parents really impacts the way we navigate the world. We learned from how 100 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:42.839 they functioned. So for you, I felt one of the reasons why I'm 101 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:46.399 asking you all of these questions is that it's very rare to see someone alive 102 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:50.680 when what they do and the way that you talk about music. You started 103 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:57.439 World Cafe and I live in Los Angeles and I listened to five FM and 104 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:01.639 every every day Raina Durris is on and my favorite interview she did was with 105 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.519 Amy Mann talking about her new album, and it was it was so good 106 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:11.360 and I my question, the burning question I have in my heart right now, 107 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:16.720 is what was the culmination of that idea of starting world cafe in the 108 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.720 team that you were a part of? How did that even begin? Well, 109 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:26.360 it began. So I was volunteer here when so the guy who started 110 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:31.240 world cafe is a guy named mark first and he was W xp n station 111 00:08:31.320 --> 00:08:37.240 manager at the time when I first started and he was hired. So W 112 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:41.200 X men lost its license in the seventies for obscenity and the University of Pennsylvania, 113 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.440 who owns the license to the radio station side that, decided to professionalize 114 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:50.720 the management of the station to make sure that didn't happen and so also grow 115 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:56.320 the audience. So when I first started XP N it was black programming, 116 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:01.879 it was traditional community radio station. It was amazing when I started, but 117 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.200 I joke only say every hour on the hour in the format chain and I 118 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:09.519 did the I did the alternative music show overnight. Well, no, it 119 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:11.840 was rock, but there was a funk show, there was a blue show, 120 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:13.879 there was a folk show, there was a Polka show, there was 121 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:18.879 a lot of games, lesbian music show, there was an Irish music show. 122 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:24.399 It was every flavor of potential music that could exist. I think the 123 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.519 only thing we didn't play was opera. But when mark was hired he brought 124 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:35.240 on some professional djs and they really started to focus. They got rid of 125 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.840 something the specialty programming and started doing this mix of music. So I remember 126 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:46.000 one major realization I remember, as an Auntier was going was hearing the world 127 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:52.000 music host get really piste off about playing Peter Gabriel in the mix. So 128 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:58.799 Peter Gabriel ICO more of his more ambient world music flavored stuff, and I 129 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:05.440 was now that makes a lot of sense. Let's play Selif Kaita and whoever 130 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:11.240 else, non English speaking music. It could work with some forms of Western 131 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:16.879 music and popular music. And then you have graceland and Paul Simon and then 132 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:20.840 you have low pbos and then all of a sudden the music world is changing 133 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.879 and all of a sudden xpn we're starting to play a more consistent, very 134 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:31.440 broad eclectic mix of music. So we noticed. Mark noticed that our audience 135 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:37.759 and membership started at the same time. Mark recognized that in public radio classical 136 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:43.200 and Jazz format was on the decline and there were a few stations W XPN, 137 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:48.679 that we're exploring this unique mix of contemporary music with R and B and 138 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:54.399 some world music and singer Songwriters and rock and funk, blues and folk. 139 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.320 There were a few other stations that we're doing what we were doing in the 140 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:05.519 public radio space. So mark was okay, I got this idea let's create 141 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:11.240 a syndicated show that would be based out of Philadelphia that would reflect the the 142 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:15.159 growth of audience that we were seeing here in Philadelphia. And it was originally 143 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:22.279 gonna be a more world flavored music show. But we did some research and 144 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:28.399 we found that the opportunity to grow this part of the public radio music space, 145 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:33.720 Reale or not, world music did not really research. Well, that 146 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.799 didn't mean we were gonna stop playing it, it just meant it was gonna 147 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:43.600 be less in the mix of our overall sound. So mark at Pied to 148 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:48.519 the corporation from public broadcast for our grant to start the show. We've got 149 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:52.840 a million dollars. All the people in public radio who were insanely pissed at 150 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:58.399 us and not happy, because public radio it's all about news. It's all 151 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:03.720 that jazz and classical music. I'm being facetious now. I love my public 152 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:07.080 radio colleagues, I really do. I'm a public radio guy. I say 153 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.879 no more, okay, and we we just that. So starting World Cafe, 154 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:18.120 we started with five stations, xbn. It became the foundation of our 155 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.960 next ten. Five, ten, now thirty years a growth. So to 156 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:26.919 be a part of that we revolutionized public radio. I don't mean to sound 157 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:31.720 a freaking ego maniac here. I'm a very humble I'm a very humble person, 158 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:37.480 but we revolutionized public radio and in many ways we gave voice to musicians 159 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.639 that would not have gotten that voice to showcase their music because commercial radio at 160 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:52.159 the time completely was in the crapper. So as commercial radio music formats got 161 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.080 tighter and tighter and tighter, that was our opportunity and we seized on that 162 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:03.200 opportunity in Philly and through world cafe. I'm a huge fan of world cafe. 163 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:05.120 Well, thank you. That's the answer to your question. Yeah, 164 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:11.399 and it's it's interesting because I feel the world cafe has almost evolved with the 165 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:16.120 times and it I think it the model that you've built and that has evolved 166 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.759 through through it all. You can listen online, you can listen on podcasts, 167 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.240 people can listen to the latest music and old music. It just has 168 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:30.759 a good mix of different contemporary sound. Question for you, then, Bruce's. 169 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:35.600 How have you, how have you adapted to the changing times, because 170 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:41.440 we've changed from analog to digital, we've changed from people largely listening to radio 171 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:46.639 to now TV to like now we have the computer on our phones. How 172 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.080 do you continue and evolve with the rapid change in technology now in the twenty 173 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:58.440 one century? I probably spend almost every second of my waking days thinking about 174 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:03.559 that and you have to think short, medium and long term around that kind 175 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.559 of stuff and you have to surround and you have to surround yourself, as 176 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:11.720 we have at Xpn, with really good, great people. So, Hey, 177 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:16.559 listen, at the dawn of the music blog era, fifteen years ago 178 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.879 I I jumped into the Internet very, very I was a very early adapter 179 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:26.600 and I was an older early adapter and I saw again, I'm not a 180 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:28.879 freaking visionary or anything, but I saw a lot of this stuff coming. 181 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:35.759 I saw so I started a music blog, whatever it was, some velvet 182 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.240 blog, because I as a fan. I saw music fans starting these music 183 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:46.360 websites and sharing music. I was Whoa this this is, this is, 184 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:50.200 this is, this is this, this is crazy. This is not the 185 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:56.519 music industry forcing ship down people's throats. This is real fan, the fan. 186 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:05.000 So the fan economy really inspired my embracing of technology and digital and social 187 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:09.399 I tell this. I tell this story not regularly, but I remember the 188 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.399 dawn of twitter. I was there I was there. I decided we were 189 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:18.200 going to do a call in show. How people call into a radio station. 190 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.120 I decided we're gonna WE'RE gonna do a tweet in show and it was 191 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:26.440 a disaster. There was. It was. It was a disaster because we 192 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:30.200 were too early. There weren't enough people on twitter at the time. So 193 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.960 yeah, but so on a certain level we jumped in kind of early and 194 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:39.080 you learned from that kind of stuff. So a lot of how do you 195 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:45.200 when to do x, Y or Z, particularly to your point about the 196 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.159 landscape evolving so quickly? A lot of it is timing. A lot of 197 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:54.840 it is timing. It's expensive. So you you have to head your bed 198 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.840 bets. I look at k x t and the phenomenal job they've done with 199 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:03.919 video. They sort of made a bet, they threw down on video in 200 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.360 the very early days of video and they're very successful because of it. So 201 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:15.240 it really requires some thought, leadership, some great management, and we've had 202 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:18.080 that at the radio station and and and leadership at all levels, not just 203 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:23.480 the boss. So I encourage. Doesn't always happened, but I encourage all 204 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:30.200 all my people in my programming, digital and social. It's you don't have 205 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.639 to be a buss to make change, but leadership at all levels. I'm 206 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:38.440 a huge believer in that. When like come to me with ideas and we'll 207 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:42.279 talk about them. Yeah, can you? Can you tell that story about 208 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:47.279 when you meet a Zine and wrote it by hand? Can you tell that 209 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:51.799 story? Yeah, that's how I actually got into the business. So I 210 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.559 was always the guy in my group of friends who was always onto new music, 211 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.679 and I did that because I read a lot of British music magazines and 212 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:03.599 I would like I would spend hours and a lot of money at record stores 213 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:08.920 when those folks who worked in record stores were really they were the taste makers 214 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:12.400 and the curators. So I was always knowing about all the stuff and I 215 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:15.640 was turning my friends onto this band, that band whatever. And one day 216 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.559 I just decided I'm gonna just start writing about music. So I started a 217 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:26.480 fanzine, which is a fan magazine and and in the early days of the 218 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:30.839 music blog sphere was just another it was just another they were music fanzines, 219 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:37.400 but they were on the Internet. So I would hand literally hand right five 220 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:44.319 ten page fanzine. I would write about I would do record reviews, I'd 221 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:49.559 write some way and read them now and I'd go you're overblown, overblown, 222 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:55.960 overthought music critic pieces. I wanted to be a great tape and I wanted 223 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.759 to be Robert Chris Gall in the village place, and I never, ever, 224 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.480 ever, had any one million of their talent. So it got to 225 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.319 the point where I was mailing out a hundred of these at a time and 226 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:11.160 then it got to the point word of mouth, whatever, and I'm in 227 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.319 a club one night with a friend who was actually a music writer who said 228 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.799 you can get paid, you can get paid for this, and I was 229 00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:25.920 I never thought of that. So I started as a music journalist. I 230 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:30.079 was I did go to school for it. I just loved the right and 231 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.680 I learned from the greats and I started writing for the weekly, the Philadelphia 232 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:38.079 weekly here in the city paper, and then I did some writing for the 233 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:44.559 Philadelphia Inquirer and I did some stuff for some national music magazines and I wasn't 234 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:47.359 paid very well for it, but that led me to connect with somebody who 235 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:52.240 worked at XPN. So good and that worst, and that's how it all 236 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:56.640 worked out. I just followed when I just I did the fancy when I 237 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:02.160 was in the restaurant business. I would go do my overnight shift at XPN 238 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:06.160 and play whatever the hell I wanted to play. And as a Montier, 239 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:08.640 I wasn't really involved with the radio station. I literally showed up at eleven 240 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:12.400 o'clock and left after my shift and I didn't know how it worked and I 241 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:17.440 didn't understand that radio. I didn't know any of that stuff. So I 242 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:21.440 learned. How did you how did you work at the restaurant business, because 243 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:25.880 I used to work at the restaurant business for years and it's exhausting. And 244 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:30.400 then after that you would go to the radio stations at eleven o'clock at night. 245 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.440 So what would your schedule look? Well, I would usually go in. 246 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.920 I I used to work, I used to cook dinner, and most 247 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:40.279 of the staff for dinner would come in at two or three o'clock and we'd 248 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:45.640 be done by ten or ten thirty and I would literally hustle over to xpn 249 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.319 literally thirty minutes after you were done working. Yeah, well, was it 250 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:52.839 was fearby, so I didn't know about it. Yeah, did you have 251 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.920 to go ahead? No, I was. I did not stop for dinner 252 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.359 because I hated the restaurants. I like that. At that time, I 253 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.960 got well thought out. I had it very well thought out. Oh good, 254 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.240 good, because I'm thinking about you're working all day in the restaurant. 255 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.880 You might stink or smell and then you're just you showed up in your restaurant 256 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.599 clothes or you just always had a bag to change. I always had a 257 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.400 bag to change. I would I would stink and spell, but there's nobody 258 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.200 here. Only there was only the other DJ on who was on before me. 259 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.319 Yeah, and you were. You were in charge of rock. There 260 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:37.119 were eight of us who did this show. I remember a good chunk of 261 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:42.119 my first year. I followed a guy who did a metal show. He 262 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:47.559 was a penn student and I remember, and there were no CDs at that 263 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:51.759 point. It was just vinyl, and I remember the first couple of times 264 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.240 and I remember I would always wait for the show to finish because I couldn't 265 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:57.119 stand. It was so loud. I just couldn't stand in the studio. 266 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.720 But what first couple of Dacks I've got. I would whenever I would go 267 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:07.920 in the studio and he he was a huge fan of steed metal and I 268 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.960 remember walking into the studio one night and like, have you ever seen the 269 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:15.400 vinyl turntables and have a strobe light to control the speed of the turntable. 270 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:21.799 Okay, he actually always had it faster. So he had steed metal going 271 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:29.680 incrementally even faster by the strobe light, and I never actually asked him about 272 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:33.079 it because I didn't want him to think I was being critical. Dude, 273 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:38.480 what are you doing? How much more faster do you want it? Quite 274 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:44.359 literally, speed, speed metal. It's crazy. Yeah, which the Genre 275 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:49.759 Music? It's it's fantastic. If you're I totally respect it. I don't 276 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:55.160 seek it out, but I respect so you figured out that it was at 277 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.920 it was increased speed when you first started playing music? Did it? Did 278 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.599 TURD tape? Did you figure it out by playing your first song or how 279 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:06.279 did that happen? Oh, no, I well, I knew to reset 280 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:11.640 the stroke light so that it played at it either the forty five or thirty 281 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:15.920 three pace that it needed to play. Yeah, yeah, what do you 282 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:19.920 think? What's what's so funny? Are you just remembering? Yeah, I 283 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:25.240 just think it's really funny. I just I have very selective memory as I 284 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:27.160 get older. I still have a lot more members, but I have very 285 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.200 selective memories and that one always sticks out than that. I walked in on 286 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:33.960 rich poor. That was his name, rich. That was the name rich 287 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.960 poor. Yeah, just speed metal records, going it twice to speed. 288 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:44.400 It's crazy. Yeah, I grew up with my dad teaching me a lot 289 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.759 about rock music. He grew up in the Philippines and I come from an 290 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.640 immigrant family, but every single time the Beatles song would come on, or 291 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.640 a BG Song or an Eagle Song, he would tell me how old he 292 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.200 was when it came on. He's like, I remember being twelve and that 293 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.920 song coming on and Earl and asking her out on a date because of that. 294 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.799 It's just music is one of those things that it just has this very 295 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.400 visceral memory where you remember exactly where you were, what you were doing, 296 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:18.680 what happened, and we attenuate sound with a memory. And I remember being 297 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.400 eight years old and asking my dad if we go to best buy and Buy 298 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:27.079 Hillary Duff C D because of Disney channel, and we passed by a John 299 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:32.079 Lennon C D and he looks over and he's like, oh my gosh and 300 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:36.440 he he picks it up and I look over and him how's who's this guy 301 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:41.960 with weird glasses and he's don't you ever and he educates me on on the 302 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:47.000 music, but it's just one of those things that it's always going to be 303 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:51.880 there and it's it's going to change over time, but music is is a 304 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.960 universal language that I will never go away. Yeah, my oldest son, 305 00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:03.359 my oldest son, is my yeah, my youngest son is twenty three and 306 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:06.839 we all love music. We all love all kinds of music and I went 307 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:10.960 through all the Disney stuff and I went through L M F A oh and 308 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.839 I went and I would take them the shows. They were meet and greets 309 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.319 out the while, all American rejects. Imagine dragon all of it. There 310 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.599 was a period of time. Do you remember who let the dogs out by 311 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:25.599 the Baha bed? Okay, that song was huge. That song was huge. 312 00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:27.039 I think there was a period of time for three months in a row, 313 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.240 that's the only record my kids played. They drove us nuts. It 314 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:37.839 drove crazy. They okay, so the Baha men just announced a tour and 315 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:44.920 they're coming to Philadelphia. So in a couple of weeks. I was with 316 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.240 my kids the other night, we were at a show together actually, and 317 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:51.200 I said to him, I was like, guys, you never believe he's 318 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:56.000 playing Philly. The Baha men are coming and you're kidding me. We gotta 319 00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:02.240 get tickets and I'm and that that's too your point. It's they ever, 320 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:06.400 they probably haven't listened to bomb then in years, but they've associate, they 321 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.559 associate music with memory. And it was, and my oldest son is and 322 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:15.519 still was and still is a huge Jonas brothers fan. They played in Philly 323 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.519 whatever the last year after the pandemic and the show got canceled. They were 324 00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.599 supposed to play and they got rescheduled and he called me. He goes dead. 325 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.519 Guess what I got? Jonas brothers tickets. was still the Jonas. 326 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.079 Probably they're good. They're good, all the Jonas brothers. They do what 327 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.960 they do well, they do what they do. That's that's that's to your 328 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.960 point. You know. Yeah, and it follows you too. I actually 329 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.960 my sister loves old, old, old music, seventies, sixties, fifties 330 00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:48.000 music, and she got me into that. I forgot what amy man's old 331 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.680 band was called. What do you remember what it was called? Tuesday, 332 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:55.440 till Tuesday. Yeah, I fell in love with that song and then I 333 00:25:55.480 --> 00:26:00.599 started watching Magnolia and I was like, what the heck, this person has 334 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:07.640 followed its amazing upward trajectory. But I'm getting off topic because I want to 335 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:11.319 follow up with you about this question. Now that you're a teacher and you've 336 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.640 been through all of this stuff, you kind of learned everything on your own. 337 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:21.559 The music, journalism, the XPN, doing radio, nothing was you 338 00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:25.920 never learned this in an academic setting. And now that you're a teacher, 339 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:30.640 what do you teach your students or what things is important for you for them 340 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:38.160 to learn at the experience? Focus and work on helping my students if they 341 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:44.960 don't already understand the importance of internships and volunteering and getting some real hands on 342 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.279 experience, because I could teach them all this ship in the world. I 343 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:52.559 could teach somebody how to use whatever, use an editing tool. I can, 344 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:56.640 and most of the students who are undergraduate temple, they're twenty years old. 345 00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.759 They know how to do that stuff now anyway, because it's all about 346 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:04.160 tech, not so my whole thing is go into the try to go into 347 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.279 the real world and find out where you don't and find out what you do. 348 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.799 And it's okay. You might have a very hazy idea of what you 349 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.119 want to do, but you want to get into this thing called the music 350 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:21.400 business or production or engineering or whatever, find out what you don't. I 351 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:25.160 when I when I was volunteer, the one thing I learned was I was 352 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:30.440 never really going to be a great dj and that that was a major revelation. 353 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.599 But I knew I wanted to stay in music, so I decided to 354 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.960 stay in the back of the house. So that's it. I think experiential 355 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:44.240 stuff is really, really key. And the other thing is I make a 356 00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:48.640 really big point of telling them that I am in the classroom to learn as 357 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:55.759 well, and then I expect them to contribute with that frame of mind. 358 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.920 Just don't sit there. People engage, talk, ask me questions, don't 359 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:06.839 be afraid. So I think that's that's the clime everything. And I help 360 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:08.240 a lot of my students. They don't know how, they don't know how 361 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:14.799 to get through the door. Um and and part I love that part of 362 00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:18.759 my job. It's not even I love that's part of giving back. Do 363 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:22.559 you still have live shows at the station with even with the covid pandemic and 364 00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:27.680 stuff, or is everything gone virtual? We're back to mostly normal bands, 365 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:33.839 aren't? Bands are touring now. They're still somewhat hesitant to do in person 366 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:40.079 stuff, although every Friday we have a live broadcast with a band in our 367 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:44.440 building free at noon. It's called. So every Friday at noon eastern time, 368 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.519 we have a live band in the studio. We do local bands. 369 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:52.720 Yeah, it's it's great. Yeah, it's great. That's awesome. I 370 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.480 love how you give people a chance because I think that a lot of the 371 00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:02.559 times you hear the same bands playing over and over and it's just nice knowing 372 00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.960 that you you play local bands. But help me, help me understand, 373 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.599 bruce, what chief of all the things means, because that's your title. 374 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.319 Yeah, well, everybody's got a title in their signature, technically on the 375 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:22.960 assistant station manager, but when people people externally, people, excellent music business 376 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:27.799 people, they have no idea. What if I say I'm the program there, 377 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:32.279 they have no idea what it what it means. They kind of don't 378 00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:36.279 even know what assistant station manager needs. I was thinking about that, I 379 00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:40.599 don't know, one day a bunch of years ago and somebody asked me. 380 00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:42.279 So what do you actually do? It XP? I just do a lot 381 00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:47.759 of stuff. I do programming, I do digital, I work with our 382 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:52.079 marketing people, I work with our fundraising people, I I I tweet, 383 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.319 I do a lot of stuff. Ultimately, though, I am responsible for 384 00:29:56.359 --> 00:30:00.680 all the programming, all the content, the distribution of it, digital stuff 385 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.200 on our website, the social media. I'm executive producer World Cafe and I 386 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:08.160 don't do a lot of day to day stuff. I we have we have 387 00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:14.079 amazing we have the best radio station staff in the world. So I'm not 388 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:15.279 that and not in the day to day stuff. I go to a lot 389 00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.480 of meetings. I go to a lot of editor we do editorial meetings. 390 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.680 I have conversations with the hosts, a bottle cool ship we want to do. 391 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.240 We have a music meeting every week where some of the hosts get together 392 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:29.599 and we talked about music and we decide what we're gonna play. Similarly with 393 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.160 World Cafe, which side on, what we want to book, who we 394 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.119 want to book and special programming features we're gonna do. So I'm I'm kind 395 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.839 of more involved in medium the longer term stuff and I do a lot of 396 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:47.400 long term planning. So now I'm thinking mostly about the second half of the 397 00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:52.680 calendar year in in terms of special, special programming that we that we're gonna 398 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.279 do working with the staff to come up with new ideas and I got a 399 00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:03.240 couple of hires that I'm working on now, so I actually have one higher 400 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:06.799 than I'm working on now. We just launched a new website. I'm working 401 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:11.079 with marketing and digital folks too elevate that and get an understanding of what people 402 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:17.920 what the user experiences are and what content is, is working and how we're 403 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.279 going to reflect more variety and diversity of local Philadelphia music community. I'm big 404 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.839 into the data, but informs the decisions but it doesn't drive them all. 405 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.559 So that's a lot of what I do, but I'm I'm very involved in 406 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:33.359 other parts of the station because it's about the music, it's about the program 407 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:40.240 so that drives. That drives everything. The programming drives everything. So I 408 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:45.799 think now my mind is because of how much planning really goes into everything that 409 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.680 you do and how many people that you work with throughout the day. And 410 00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.640 it just brings me back to what you said, where you really encourage leadership 411 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:57.920 at all levels and you really believe in that. For me, who I 412 00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:02.039 feel like I'm just starting out in my career and I'm still figuring out who 413 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:07.720 I am. How do I embody and for people listening who want longevity in 414 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:13.440 their careers, how do they embody leadership at all levels? I try to 415 00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:19.680 create an environment where people feel they have a seat at the table and their 416 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:25.079 ideas are welcome and no idea is a bad idea. I think in organizations 417 00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:31.279 that's really crucial for people to be able to feel they can exhibit qualities of 418 00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:36.640 leadership. It's not just coming up with ideas, it's coming up with ideas 419 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:39.519 and thinking what are the implications of this? There's also creative problem solving the 420 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:45.640 quality of leadership I would love more people to embrace and understand and work on 421 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:51.400 and being open to taking risks and being open to learning from your mistakes. 422 00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:55.039 It's being in a meeting when you're not really talking but you're really listening to 423 00:32:55.119 --> 00:33:00.759 what everybody is saying. There's a big difference between just somebody who sits in 424 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:06.000 a meeting goes but I think versus. Here's what I think. I've done 425 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:12.559 some analysis and here's my recommendation for moving forward. That's really important. Yeah, 426 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:17.079 having the humility to listen to what other people have to say coming up. 427 00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:20.640 Yeah, thanks, that was the word I have a searching for. 428 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:27.400 Humility is massive. Yeah, I want to end with this. What is 429 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.680 the most underrated leadership quality that needs to be spoken about more, and what 430 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:36.079 is the most overrated one? Well, I think overrated. Communicate effectively is 431 00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:39.160 overrated because a lot of people don't communicate effectively, but it's also important. 432 00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:45.440 I don't people talking about emotional intelligence like that's a that's a major thing. 433 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:50.440 Thinking about how people are feeling, you know, examining how you what you 434 00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:57.079 say and how your behavior impacts other people, responding versus reacting. That all 435 00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:01.000 that ship is in emotional intelligence, and I still think that's underrated because people 436 00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.480 don't really you look, a lot of people learn. They don't wear that 437 00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.320 in school. You developed that over time. You start to you learn stuff 438 00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:13.719 from your parents. So what have you learned from your parents? You can 439 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:19.559 have a really great mentor who could? As as you're developing through an organization, 440 00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:22.840 there's a thing called situational leadership and it's you really have to look at 441 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:28.599 everything in a particular situation and how it happens and then breaking down those things. 442 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:35.800 What I think is underrated is managers, leaders who think they who don't 443 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:42.880 really empower their team members, who don't empower the people in their organizations to 444 00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:47.360 contribute. If I answered your question, you did, I think. I 445 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:50.880 think you said a couple of things, but one of the things that I 446 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.000 think I'm going to reflect on more throughout the days. You're not everyone needs 447 00:34:55.039 --> 00:35:00.039 the label of a leader, but I think it's someone who can embody humility 448 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:06.679 and a little bit of understanding of other people, but also just having the 449 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:12.119 ability to take charge when people who have the label are doing other things and 450 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:16.480 putting out their own fires. It's being able to think holistically rather than just 451 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.280 logistically. Yeah, that's exactly I spent a lot of time with the people 452 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:28.440 in each of my departments thinking about how is what I'm doing today going to 453 00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.920 impact marketing? How is what I'm doing today, you're going to impact fundraising? 454 00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:38.360 How is this band that I'm recording? What are the opportunities other than 455 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.480 just putting it up on the website? What? What? What? What? 456 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.079 What? What does that actually mean? And I and I spent a 457 00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:50.559 lot of time on that with with with folks. Accountability is another big thing. 458 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:57.559 Humility, empathy. We the last couple of years we worked with some 459 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.960 outside folks, work with the Maagement team here at experience. We do that 460 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:06.239 occasionally and it's great. I love it, and I kind of learned about 461 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:12.599 this concept of of centering. You ever hear of this idea about of centering? 462 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:16.440 So we all come to the table with our unique perspectives and our unique 463 00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:23.480 history and our unique politics and our unique etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, and 464 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:29.519 that's what we typically center on. So when we come to conversations, we 465 00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:34.519 have our perspective and that's our center and it's really hard the older you get, 466 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.480 it's really hard to break out of that. It's really hard to talk 467 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:44.159 about equity and really understand what that means because you're so used to maybe not 468 00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:50.440 being equitable. We're dealing with situations that are that don't result in equitable opportunities 469 00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:54.920 for people or inclusivity or diversity. It's you could talk diversity, but if 470 00:36:54.920 --> 00:37:00.400 you don't walk diversity. But in order to walk diversity you have to you 471 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:05.239 have to recognize here are my limitations and this is what's preventing me to look 472 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:07.599 at the world a different way. So this, so this notion of centering, 473 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:13.199 is really key and I learned that the last two years and that's really 474 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:17.320 changed a lot of my thinking about the world, also recognizing that I'm always 475 00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:22.000 still going to bring my sixty four year old White Guy Jewish perspective, liberal 476 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:27.400 Jewish perspective, to the table. So how do I reconcile the differences in 477 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.960 the world with WHO I am as a person and who I I'm old, 478 00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:36.159 I'm old, I'm the older yet the harder it is to change, and 479 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:39.320 it could be argued whether I've been successful at that. But I think about 480 00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:43.880 it a lot and I tried it do that a lot. There are people 481 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:45.519 who will give me credit for that and what there are going to be people 482 00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:50.199 who won't give me credit for that, and I try to recognize that and 483 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:52.639 try to try to work on that. I'm going to take that with me. 484 00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:57.480 Bruce, you gave me a lot to think about because I think I 485 00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:05.239 think you gave me perspective as well as as an immigrant woman who's also Brown, 486 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.679 and there's just a lot of different overlapping circles that goes into your perspective 487 00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:15.039 about things. I would say. The other thing I would say is as 488 00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.800 you're growing, as you're moving on onward and upward. I say that all 489 00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:23.039 the time. As you're moving onward and upward, it's important to know what 490 00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:27.239 battles do you want to pick and when you get to the boil, if 491 00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:31.639 you're ever, I have twenty five people who were in my departments and there's 492 00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:37.559 lots of ideas every day, lots of things going on. You have to 493 00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:43.280 realize that, even at my managerial level, I have to pick my battles, 494 00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:47.760 I have to make certain decisions. So, anyway, that's my thing. 495 00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.159 So do you have a few minutes? Actually, so, is this 496 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:57.519 part of the all right? So, I don't I don't really know much 497 00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:00.440 about you. So give me the hip. Well, you just told me. 498 00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:06.679 I know you're twite five, you're a woman, immigrant, child and 499 00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:08.039 immigrant, all that kind of ship. So what do you want to do? 500 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.480 What do you want to do with your life? Do you do this? 501 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.760 What do you what do you think? Well, I I'm a therapist 502 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:17.920 by trade. That's my my day job. So I work with kids and 503 00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:22.760 families and do a lot of family therapy. I work in mental health, 504 00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:28.239 but I actually have a company on the side. It's it's called it's actually 505 00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:32.320 think weird. It's the PODCAST, but it's I'm working as a I guess 506 00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:38.079 you can say my formal title is consultant for different companies. But essentially what 507 00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:42.280 I want to do is I want to mix my love of mental health with 508 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.800 storytelling and empower people with that. I want to combine it and I want 509 00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:53.880 to create a foundation that allows people to show up embodying just that. They 510 00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:59.920 have different stories to tell and I just don't think there's different therapeutic modalities are 511 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.280 round storytelling. I think there's a lot about how you think and how you 512 00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:07.079 how you're thinking affects the way that you manage life. But I think I'm 513 00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.920 just really fascinated by how to help people build resiliency despite hard times. So 514 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.000 that's my passion. I'm still trying to figure out how to go about that, 515 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:19.599 because I did work in radio for a little bit. I did. 516 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:23.119 Yeah, I volunteered in radio, similar to how it happened. I worked 517 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:27.320 in restaurants. I was a teacher for a little bit too. I've just 518 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.519 done a lot of different things and I still feel I'm figuring myself out. 519 00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:35.400 I have a job, but I just don't think it, I don't think 520 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.440 it's who I am. I'm still kind of, I feel like, different 521 00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:44.679 things and I'm just trying to marry the two now. So yeah, that 522 00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:46.280 was that was my twenties man. So you're no different than a lot of 523 00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:50.880 people. Don't worry about that. You're pretty focused. It sounds like you're 524 00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:53.360 on a track. That's a great thing, and not respect them anyway. 525 00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:57.840 I don't I know about what are you doing? We did a pride. 526 00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:04.639 We get a project. So we we worked with additions on call, an 527 00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:10.440 organization called musicians on call, and basically musicians on call is it's a nonprofit 528 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:16.840 that brings music to the bedside of Terminula patients. Okay, so you're in 529 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:21.880 the hospital, your long term care. We have bands, singers longer and 530 00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:23.760 we're going to the hospital and it's when you see videos of this ship you 531 00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:30.079 just cry because it's so it's so beautiful and you see people, these people 532 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:35.119 who don't have a lot of life loan length and their wives lived, just 533 00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:40.719 respond in such emotionally intense ways. So we fund the program and we're in 534 00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:45.239 twelve hospitals in Philadelphia and we had to stop because of the pandemic, but 535 00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:49.840 we're now kind of going back out there. But it's part as a sub 536 00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:52.440 part of that, and this kind of speaks to your mental health and storytelling 537 00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:58.280 thing. We did this initiative a few years ago called music heels and we 538 00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:05.960 would and it was really storytelling about how music has helped people heel and I 539 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:10.280 think it's still on our website. And we interviewed musicians, the rapists, 540 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:15.039 all kinds of people and got their stories and it was we ran them on 541 00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:17.760 the air, we had them website. It's really, really great. We 542 00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:22.880 had we talked the foundation people about all the stuff musicians and it was fantastic. 543 00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:27.239 So and we don't hear enough of that stuff. Music is, I 544 00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:31.000 said earlier, it's so powerful. It's so powerful and it could would change 545 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:35.599 his life. So well, Hey, I wish you all the best. 546 00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:38.360 I'm really glad we got a chance. So I never really talk about this 547 00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:43.199 kind of stuff with people. So thank you. So what what do you 548 00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:45.880 do now with this? Are you going to edit it or are you just 549 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:50.039 gonna pout something? Yeah, so this, I think weird, was not 550 00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:54.960 recorded in front of a live studio audience. This episode was written, produced 551 00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:00.800 and edited by me, Helen Garcia. The platform used to record this podcast 552 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:07.360 was Riverside Dot FM. The podcast hosting this podcast is sounder DOT FM. 553 00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:10.320 Thanks for listening. And this was a production of think Weird Co by Helen Garcia