Transcript
WEBVTT
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My Name's Helen Garcia and you're listening
to the think weird podcast. My Dad
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was a sales he hated his life, he hated his freaky job. Growing
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up, I would seem miserable all
the time and a lot of it just
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came down to me. I recognized
so, like you know, what I
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want to wake up every morning,
to go to sleep every night, like
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just feeling good about what I do
and when I'm contributing to the world.
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Welcome to think weird. I want
to ask you this question. What were
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you made to do? Better yet, what do you have to do?
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My guest today is chief of all
things from W XPN Radio, Bruce Warren.
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He is part of the team that
started at the legendary World Cafe,
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and this episode is for the person
that might be unsure about what they want
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to do and, once permission to
try and to experiment, to figure out
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what you've made to do. So, without further ADO, here's my conversation
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with Bruce. So you started out
as an elementary school teacher and then you
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became a chef for a couple of
years and then you were volunteer at Xpn
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for several years until you finally got
the job. I think one of the
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things I've learned is that you're someone
who's utilized so many skill sets and then
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worked at the same place for thirty
five plus years. So can you tell
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me a little bit about what you
got from each profession and how it translates
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to what you're doing now? My
Dad was a salesperson. He hated his
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life, he hated his freaking job. Growing up I would see him miserable
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all the time and I was probably
when I didn't even realize that I was
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forming the future of Bruce Mare,
and a lot of it just came down
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to me. I recognized that I
want to wake up every morning and go
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to sleep every night just feel good
about what I do and when I'm contributing
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to the world. I did a
local Ted talk six or seven years ago
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and I talked about passion. I've
always been driven by my passion about what
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felt right in my heart and I
felt really good about not to avoid the
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crappy stuff in life, because Lord
knows there's been that share of that.
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So that that's really it. I
I as a music can growing up.
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The first night that I was a
volunteer DJ AT W XP N I said,
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yeah, I gotta learn how to
get paid to do this. This
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is what I'm going to do for
the rest of my life, because it's
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music. I wanted to turn my
passion and there's a lot of analogy between
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kind of what I did in the
restaurant business and what I do at Xpn
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in terms of creativity and helping people
get through their day. He said once
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in an interview with Kevin Schmidlin on
Philly, who, I thought I was
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going to be an elementary school teacher
because I thought education would change the world.
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I look back at your linkedin profile
and you teach it, you pen
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and you also teach it temple,
where you graduated college. What inspired you
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to start teaching again? Class said
I wanted to get back I wanted to
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build my world out a little bit
more. I left teaching when I graduated
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college because it's the bureaucracy. I
couldn't stand it and it became more about
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the bureaucracy than it was about helping
children develop. My life is very consumed
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by my work and I wanted something
else. Wanted another intellectual and social opportunity
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because, more on the intellectual side, when I got my message degree,
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and fifteen years ago. Teaching is
also learning. I just sided when you
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try to teach, get back into
teaching and work with students, undergraduates and
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graduate student. You grew up in
Philly your entire life. Why do you
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stay? What is it about staying
in the same city? I love it.
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It's diverse, it's small, it's
Not New York. I can I'm
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diverse things to do with less hassle
than New York. I don't know why
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I'm picking on New York. I
never really stayed. I never really stayed
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there long enough to get a real
feel for it, but it's where my
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family is. So I've always loved
the music of Philly. I've always loved
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the Culture Philly. I've always I've
always loved the politics of Philly, whether
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I agree with them or not,
and the Culture Philly. So that's why
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I stayed. He discovered your love
of records and riding your bike across different
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records stores where you are. It's
really rare nowadays to stay in one place
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for that long. I guess I
adapted and continue to adapt. I don't
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want to be a seven year old
budget. I want to go as felt
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good. I just turned I know
that I'mant a young place in my life
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where I still have room to grow
and discover, and I remember you told
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the story about starting out your job
isn't elementary school teacher, and thinking that
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you were going to change and revolutionize
these kids lives and because of bureaucracy,
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you realize that you couldn't do that. You shifted. For someone who is
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looking for that pursuit of happiness,
when do you know when to quit and
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when do you know that it's right? Well, I'll speak from my experiences.
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I knew you'd go into a career
decision or if you decide to get
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a master's degree in something, it's
the further your passion it's to be able
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to activate the things you love and
the things you're passionate about. Bureaucracy killed
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my love of revolutionizing the world for
children. I knew it was time to
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quit when the bureaucracy was getting too
heavy for me in teaching. I I
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knew it was time to quit in
the restaurant business when I was physically exhausted.
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It just got to the point where
I just couldn't function anymore. But
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there are things that inform your decision
to quit or incisions to your decisions to
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stay. And Hey, listen,
I was five months till I was in
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the restaurant business. I was making
thirty thousand dollars eas year he started making
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three, three dollars. Remember saying
that, yeah, I was making an
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hour. I tell people that.
Now they go, how did you actually
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survive? Well, things are much
different than economically. Things were very,
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very much different than and that.
And I wanted to live on my own.
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So I had to figure it out. I went I lived with a
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friend, but I wanted I didn't
want to live at home. So money,
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money helps. Money is freedom sometimes. I'm not uger capitalist or anything
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like that, but so I had
to make it work. So I did.
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I did. I remember I was
at the restaurant for three months and
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I got a ten cent hour raid, ten cent an hour raise, and
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I felt I was a millionaire.
My first job I was making I think
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six bucks an hour. I was
I think I was fourteen years old and
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I remember getting fifty bucks that week
and and just saving it out. Wow,
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this is what it feels to make
money doing what you love. You're
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probably a million you probably a millionaire. I'm never going to get that moment
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back or a thousand a yeah,
exactly, but at the heart of everything
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was I just didn't want to wind
up like my dad. We didn't have
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the greatest relationship in the world,
but that being said, I loved him
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and he took care of me and
that's okay. So just being driven by
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that kind of stuff. I appreciate
your honesty. I feel how we watch
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our parents really impacts the way we
navigate the world. We learned from how
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they functioned. So for you,
I felt one of the reasons why I'm
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asking you all of these questions is
that it's very rare to see someone alive
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when what they do and the way
that you talk about music. You started
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World Cafe and I live in Los
Angeles and I listened to five FM and
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every every day Raina Durris is on
and my favorite interview she did was with
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Amy Mann talking about her new album, and it was it was so good
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and I my question, the burning
question I have in my heart right now,
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is what was the culmination of that
idea of starting world cafe in the
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team that you were a part of? How did that even begin? Well,
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it began. So I was volunteer
here when so the guy who started
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world cafe is a guy named mark
first and he was W xp n station
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manager at the time when I first
started and he was hired. So W
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X men lost its license in the
seventies for obscenity and the University of Pennsylvania,
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who owns the license to the radio
station side that, decided to professionalize
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the management of the station to make
sure that didn't happen and so also grow
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the audience. So when I first
started XP N it was black programming,
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it was traditional community radio station.
It was amazing when I started, but
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I joke only say every hour on
the hour in the format chain and I
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did the I did the alternative music
show overnight. Well, no, it
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was rock, but there was a
funk show, there was a blue show,
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there was a folk show, there
was a Polka show, there was
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a lot of games, lesbian music
show, there was an Irish music show.
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It was every flavor of potential music
that could exist. I think the
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only thing we didn't play was opera. But when mark was hired he brought
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on some professional djs and they really
started to focus. They got rid of
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something the specialty programming and started doing
this mix of music. So I remember
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one major realization I remember, as
an Auntier was going was hearing the world
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music host get really piste off about
playing Peter Gabriel in the mix. So
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Peter Gabriel ICO more of his more
ambient world music flavored stuff, and I
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was now that makes a lot of
sense. Let's play Selif Kaita and whoever
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else, non English speaking music.
It could work with some forms of Western
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music and popular music. And then
you have graceland and Paul Simon and then
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you have low pbos and then all
of a sudden the music world is changing
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and all of a sudden xpn we're
starting to play a more consistent, very
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broad eclectic mix of music. So
we noticed. Mark noticed that our audience
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and membership started at the same time. Mark recognized that in public radio classical
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and Jazz format was on the decline
and there were a few stations W XPN,
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that we're exploring this unique mix of
contemporary music with R and B and
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some world music and singer Songwriters and
rock and funk, blues and folk.
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There were a few other stations that
we're doing what we were doing in the
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public radio space. So mark was
okay, I got this idea let's create
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a syndicated show that would be based
out of Philadelphia that would reflect the the
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growth of audience that we were seeing
here in Philadelphia. And it was originally
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gonna be a more world flavored music
show. But we did some research and
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we found that the opportunity to grow
this part of the public radio music space,
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Reale or not, world music did
not really research. Well, that
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didn't mean we were gonna stop playing
it, it just meant it was gonna
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be less in the mix of our
overall sound. So mark at Pied to
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the corporation from public broadcast for our
grant to start the show. We've got
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a million dollars. All the people
in public radio who were insanely pissed at
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us and not happy, because public
radio it's all about news. It's all
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that jazz and classical music. I'm
being facetious now. I love my public
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radio colleagues, I really do.
I'm a public radio guy. I say
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no more, okay, and we
we just that. So starting World Cafe,
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we started with five stations, xbn. It became the foundation of our
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next ten. Five, ten,
now thirty years a growth. So to
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be a part of that we revolutionized
public radio. I don't mean to sound
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a freaking ego maniac here. I'm
a very humble I'm a very humble person,
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but we revolutionized public radio and in
many ways we gave voice to musicians
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that would not have gotten that voice
to showcase their music because commercial radio at
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the time completely was in the crapper. So as commercial radio music formats got
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tighter and tighter and tighter, that
was our opportunity and we seized on that
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opportunity in Philly and through world cafe. I'm a huge fan of world cafe.
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Well, thank you. That's the
answer to your question. Yeah,
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and it's it's interesting because I feel
the world cafe has almost evolved with the
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times and it I think it the
model that you've built and that has evolved
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through through it all. You can
listen online, you can listen on podcasts,
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people can listen to the latest music
and old music. It just has
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a good mix of different contemporary sound. Question for you, then, Bruce's.
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How have you, how have you
adapted to the changing times, because
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we've changed from analog to digital,
we've changed from people largely listening to radio
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to now TV to like now we
have the computer on our phones. How
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do you continue and evolve with the
rapid change in technology now in the twenty
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one century? I probably spend almost
every second of my waking days thinking about
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that and you have to think short, medium and long term around that kind
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of stuff and you have to surround
and you have to surround yourself, as
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we have at Xpn, with really
good, great people. So, Hey,
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listen, at the dawn of the
music blog era, fifteen years ago
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I I jumped into the Internet very, very I was a very early adapter
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and I was an older early adapter
and I saw again, I'm not a
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freaking visionary or anything, but I
saw a lot of this stuff coming.
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I saw so I started a music
blog, whatever it was, some velvet
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blog, because I as a fan. I saw music fans starting these music
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websites and sharing music. I was
Whoa this this is, this is,
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this is, this is this,
this is crazy. This is not the
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music industry forcing ship down people's throats. This is real fan, the fan.
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So the fan economy really inspired my
embracing of technology and digital and social
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I tell this. I tell this
story not regularly, but I remember the
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dawn of twitter. I was there
I was there. I decided we were
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going to do a call in show. How people call into a radio station.
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I decided we're gonna WE'RE gonna do
a tweet in show and it was
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a disaster. There was. It
was. It was a disaster because we
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were too early. There weren't enough
people on twitter at the time. So
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yeah, but so on a certain
level we jumped in kind of early and
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you learned from that kind of stuff. So a lot of how do you
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when to do x, Y or
Z, particularly to your point about the
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landscape evolving so quickly? A lot
of it is timing. A lot of
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it is timing. It's expensive.
So you you have to head your bed
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bets. I look at k x
t and the phenomenal job they've done with
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video. They sort of made a
bet, they threw down on video in
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the very early days of video and
they're very successful because of it. So
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it really requires some thought, leadership, some great management, and we've had
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that at the radio station and and
and leadership at all levels, not just
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the boss. So I encourage.
Doesn't always happened, but I encourage all
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all my people in my programming,
digital and social. It's you don't have
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to be a buss to make change, but leadership at all levels. I'm
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a huge believer in that. When
like come to me with ideas and we'll
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talk about them. Yeah, can
you? Can you tell that story about
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when you meet a Zine and wrote
it by hand? Can you tell that
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story? Yeah, that's how I
actually got into the business. So I
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was always the guy in my group
of friends who was always onto new music,
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and I did that because I read
a lot of British music magazines and
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I would like I would spend hours
and a lot of money at record stores
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when those folks who worked in record
stores were really they were the taste makers
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and the curators. So I was
always knowing about all the stuff and I
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was turning my friends onto this band, that band whatever. And one day
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I just decided I'm gonna just start
writing about music. So I started a
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fanzine, which is a fan magazine
and and in the early days of the
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music blog sphere was just another it
was just another they were music fanzines,
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but they were on the Internet.
So I would hand literally hand right five
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ten page fanzine. I would write
about I would do record reviews, I'd
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write some way and read them now
and I'd go you're overblown, overblown,
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overthought music critic pieces. I wanted
to be a great tape and I wanted
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to be Robert Chris Gall in the
village place, and I never, ever,
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ever, had any one million of
their talent. So it got to
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the point where I was mailing out
a hundred of these at a time and
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then it got to the point word
of mouth, whatever, and I'm in
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a club one night with a friend
who was actually a music writer who said
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you can get paid, you can
get paid for this, and I was
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I never thought of that. So
I started as a music journalist. I
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was I did go to school for
it. I just loved the right and
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I learned from the greats and I
started writing for the weekly, the Philadelphia
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weekly here in the city paper,
and then I did some writing for the
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Philadelphia Inquirer and I did some stuff
for some national music magazines and I wasn't
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paid very well for it, but
that led me to connect with somebody who
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worked at XPN. So good and
that worst, and that's how it all
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worked out. I just followed when
I just I did the fancy when I
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was in the restaurant business. I
would go do my overnight shift at XPN
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and play whatever the hell I wanted
to play. And as a Montier,
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I wasn't really involved with the radio
station. I literally showed up at eleven
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o'clock and left after my shift and
I didn't know how it worked and I
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didn't understand that radio. I didn't
know any of that stuff. So I
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learned. How did you how did
you work at the restaurant business, because
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I used to work at the restaurant
business for years and it's exhausting. And
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then after that you would go to
the radio stations at eleven o'clock at night.
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So what would your schedule look?
Well, I would usually go in.
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I I used to work, I
used to cook dinner, and most
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of the staff for dinner would come
in at two or three o'clock and we'd
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be done by ten or ten thirty
and I would literally hustle over to xpn
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literally thirty minutes after you were done
working. Yeah, well, was it
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was fearby, so I didn't know
about it. Yeah, did you have
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to go ahead? No, I
was. I did not stop for dinner
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because I hated the restaurants. I
like that. At that time, I
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got well thought out. I had
it very well thought out. Oh good,
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good, because I'm thinking about you're
working all day in the restaurant.
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You might stink or smell and then
you're just you showed up in your restaurant
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clothes or you just always had a
bag to change. I always had a
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bag to change. I would I
would stink and spell, but there's nobody
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here. Only there was only the
other DJ on who was on before me.
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Yeah, and you were. You
were in charge of rock. There
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were eight of us who did this
show. I remember a good chunk of
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my first year. I followed a
guy who did a metal show. He
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was a penn student and I remember, and there were no CDs at that
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point. It was just vinyl,
and I remember the first couple of times
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and I remember I would always wait
for the show to finish because I couldn't
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stand. It was so loud.
I just couldn't stand in the studio.
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But what first couple of Dacks I've
got. I would whenever I would go
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in the studio and he he was
a huge fan of steed metal and I
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remember walking into the studio one night
and like, have you ever seen the
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vinyl turntables and have a strobe light
to control the speed of the turntable.
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Okay, he actually always had it
faster. So he had steed metal going
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incrementally even faster by the strobe light, and I never actually asked him about
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it because I didn't want him to
think I was being critical. Dude,
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what are you doing? How much
more faster do you want it? Quite
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literally, speed, speed metal.
It's crazy. Yeah, which the Genre
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Music? It's it's fantastic. If
you're I totally respect it. I don't
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seek it out, but I respect
so you figured out that it was at
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it was increased speed when you first
started playing music? Did it? Did
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TURD tape? Did you figure it
out by playing your first song or how
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did that happen? Oh, no, I well, I knew to reset
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the stroke light so that it played
at it either the forty five or thirty
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three pace that it needed to play. Yeah, yeah, what do you
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think? What's what's so funny?
Are you just remembering? Yeah, I
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just think it's really funny. I
just I have very selective memory as I
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get older. I still have a
lot more members, but I have very
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selective memories and that one always sticks
out than that. I walked in on
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rich poor. That was his name, rich. That was the name rich
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poor. Yeah, just speed metal
records, going it twice to speed.
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It's crazy. Yeah, I grew
up with my dad teaching me a lot
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about rock music. He grew up
in the Philippines and I come from an
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immigrant family, but every single time
the Beatles song would come on, or
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a BG Song or an Eagle Song, he would tell me how old he
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was when it came on. He's
like, I remember being twelve and that
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song coming on and Earl and asking
her out on a date because of that.
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It's just music is one of those
things that it just has this very
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visceral memory where you remember exactly where
you were, what you were doing,
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what happened, and we attenuate sound
with a memory. And I remember being
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eight years old and asking my dad
if we go to best buy and Buy
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Hillary Duff C D because of Disney
channel, and we passed by a John
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Lennon C D and he looks over
and he's like, oh my gosh and
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he he picks it up and I
look over and him how's who's this guy
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with weird glasses and he's don't you
ever and he educates me on on the
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music, but it's just one of
those things that it's always going to be
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there and it's it's going to change
over time, but music is is a
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universal language that I will never go
away. Yeah, my oldest son,
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my oldest son, is my yeah, my youngest son is twenty three and
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we all love music. We all
love all kinds of music and I went
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through all the Disney stuff and I
went through L M F A oh and
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I went and I would take them
the shows. They were meet and greets
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out the while, all American rejects. Imagine dragon all of it. There
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was a period of time. Do
you remember who let the dogs out by
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the Baha bed? Okay, that
song was huge. That song was huge.
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I think there was a period of
time for three months in a row,
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that's the only record my kids played. They drove us nuts. It
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drove crazy. They okay, so
the Baha men just announced a tour and
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they're coming to Philadelphia. So in
a couple of weeks. I was with
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my kids the other night, we
were at a show together actually, and
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I said to him, I was
like, guys, you never believe he's
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playing Philly. The Baha men are
coming and you're kidding me. We gotta
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get tickets and I'm and that that's
too your point. It's they ever,
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they probably haven't listened to bomb then
in years, but they've associate, they
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associate music with memory. And it
was, and my oldest son is and
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still was and still is a huge
Jonas brothers fan. They played in Philly
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whatever the last year after the pandemic
and the show got canceled. They were
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supposed to play and they got rescheduled
and he called me. He goes dead.
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Guess what I got? Jonas brothers
tickets. was still the Jonas.
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Probably they're good. They're good,
all the Jonas brothers. They do what
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they do well, they do what
they do. That's that's that's to your
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point. You know. Yeah,
and it follows you too. I actually
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my sister loves old, old,
old music, seventies, sixties, fifties
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music, and she got me into
that. I forgot what amy man's old
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band was called. What do you
remember what it was called? Tuesday,
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till Tuesday. Yeah, I fell
in love with that song and then I
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started watching Magnolia and I was like, what the heck, this person has
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followed its amazing upward trajectory. But
I'm getting off topic because I want to
335
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follow up with you about this question. Now that you're a teacher and you've
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been through all of this stuff,
you kind of learned everything on your own.
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The music, journalism, the XPN, doing radio, nothing was you
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never learned this in an academic setting. And now that you're a teacher,
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what do you teach your students or
what things is important for you for them
340
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to learn at the experience? Focus
and work on helping my students if they
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don't already understand the importance of internships
and volunteering and getting some real hands on
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experience, because I could teach them
all this ship in the world. I
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could teach somebody how to use whatever, use an editing tool. I can,
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and most of the students who are
undergraduate temple, they're twenty years old.
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They know how to do that stuff
now anyway, because it's all about
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tech, not so my whole thing
is go into the try to go into
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the real world and find out where
you don't and find out what you do.
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And it's okay. You might have
a very hazy idea of what you
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want to do, but you want
to get into this thing called the music
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business or production or engineering or whatever, find out what you don't. I
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when I when I was volunteer,
the one thing I learned was I was
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never really going to be a great
dj and that that was a major revelation.
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But I knew I wanted to stay
in music, so I decided to
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stay in the back of the house. So that's it. I think experiential
355
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stuff is really, really key.
And the other thing is I make a
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really big point of telling them that
I am in the classroom to learn as
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well, and then I expect them
to contribute with that frame of mind.
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Just don't sit there. People engage, talk, ask me questions, don't
359
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be afraid. So I think that's
that's the clime everything. And I help
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a lot of my students. They
don't know how, they don't know how
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to get through the door. Um
and and part I love that part of
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my job. It's not even I
love that's part of giving back. Do
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you still have live shows at the
station with even with the covid pandemic and
364
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stuff, or is everything gone virtual? We're back to mostly normal bands,
365
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aren't? Bands are touring now.
They're still somewhat hesitant to do in person
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stuff, although every Friday we have
a live broadcast with a band in our
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building free at noon. It's called. So every Friday at noon eastern time,
368
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we have a live band in the
studio. We do local bands.
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Yeah, it's it's great. Yeah, it's great. That's awesome. I
370
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love how you give people a chance
because I think that a lot of the
371
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times you hear the same bands playing
over and over and it's just nice knowing
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that you you play local bands.
But help me, help me understand,
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bruce, what chief of all the
things means, because that's your title.
374
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Yeah, well, everybody's got a
title in their signature, technically on the
375
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:22.960
assistant station manager, but when people
people externally, people, excellent music business
376
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people, they have no idea.
What if I say I'm the program there,
377
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they have no idea what it what
it means. They kind of don't
378
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even know what assistant station manager needs. I was thinking about that, I
379
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don't know, one day a bunch
of years ago and somebody asked me.
380
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:42.279
So what do you actually do?
It XP? I just do a lot
381
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:47.759
of stuff. I do programming,
I do digital, I work with our
382
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:52.079
marketing people, I work with our
fundraising people, I I I tweet,
383
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I do a lot of stuff.
Ultimately, though, I am responsible for
384
00:29:56.359 --> 00:30:00.680
all the programming, all the content, the distribution of it, digital stuff
385
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.200
on our website, the social media. I'm executive producer World Cafe and I
386
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:08.160
don't do a lot of day to
day stuff. I we have we have
387
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amazing we have the best radio station
staff in the world. So I'm not
388
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that and not in the day to
day stuff. I go to a lot
389
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of meetings. I go to a
lot of editor we do editorial meetings.
390
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.680
I have conversations with the hosts,
a bottle cool ship we want to do.
391
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.240
We have a music meeting every week
where some of the hosts get together
392
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:29.599
and we talked about music and we
decide what we're gonna play. Similarly with
393
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.160
World Cafe, which side on,
what we want to book, who we
394
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want to book and special programming features
we're gonna do. So I'm I'm kind
395
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of more involved in medium the longer
term stuff and I do a lot of
396
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:47.400
long term planning. So now I'm
thinking mostly about the second half of the
397
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calendar year in in terms of special, special programming that we that we're gonna
398
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.279
do working with the staff to come
up with new ideas and I got a
399
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:03.240
couple of hires that I'm working on
now, so I actually have one higher
400
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:06.799
than I'm working on now. We
just launched a new website. I'm working
401
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:11.079
with marketing and digital folks too elevate
that and get an understanding of what people
402
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:17.920
what the user experiences are and what
content is, is working and how we're
403
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.279
going to reflect more variety and diversity
of local Philadelphia music community. I'm big
404
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.839
into the data, but informs the
decisions but it doesn't drive them all.
405
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.559
So that's a lot of what I
do, but I'm I'm very involved in
406
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:33.359
other parts of the station because it's
about the music, it's about the program
407
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:40.240
so that drives. That drives everything. The programming drives everything. So I
408
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:45.799
think now my mind is because of
how much planning really goes into everything that
409
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.680
you do and how many people that
you work with throughout the day. And
410
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.640
it just brings me back to what
you said, where you really encourage leadership
411
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:57.920
at all levels and you really believe
in that. For me, who I
412
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:02.039
feel like I'm just starting out in
my career and I'm still figuring out who
413
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:07.720
I am. How do I embody
and for people listening who want longevity in
414
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:13.440
their careers, how do they embody
leadership at all levels? I try to
415
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:19.680
create an environment where people feel they
have a seat at the table and their
416
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:25.079
ideas are welcome and no idea is
a bad idea. I think in organizations
417
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:31.279
that's really crucial for people to be
able to feel they can exhibit qualities of
418
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:36.640
leadership. It's not just coming up
with ideas, it's coming up with ideas
419
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:39.519
and thinking what are the implications of
this? There's also creative problem solving the
420
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:45.640
quality of leadership I would love more
people to embrace and understand and work on
421
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:51.400
and being open to taking risks and
being open to learning from your mistakes.
422
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:55.039
It's being in a meeting when you're
not really talking but you're really listening to
423
00:32:55.119 --> 00:33:00.759
what everybody is saying. There's a
big difference between just somebody who sits in
424
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:06.000
a meeting goes but I think versus. Here's what I think. I've done
425
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:12.559
some analysis and here's my recommendation for
moving forward. That's really important. Yeah,
426
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:17.079
having the humility to listen to what
other people have to say coming up.
427
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:20.640
Yeah, thanks, that was the
word I have a searching for.
428
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:27.400
Humility is massive. Yeah, I
want to end with this. What is
429
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.680
the most underrated leadership quality that needs
to be spoken about more, and what
430
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:36.079
is the most overrated one? Well, I think overrated. Communicate effectively is
431
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:39.160
overrated because a lot of people don't
communicate effectively, but it's also important.
432
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:45.440
I don't people talking about emotional intelligence
like that's a that's a major thing.
433
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:50.440
Thinking about how people are feeling,
you know, examining how you what you
434
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:57.079
say and how your behavior impacts other
people, responding versus reacting. That all
435
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:01.000
that ship is in emotional intelligence,
and I still think that's underrated because people
436
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.480
don't really you look, a lot
of people learn. They don't wear that
437
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.320
in school. You developed that over
time. You start to you learn stuff
438
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:13.719
from your parents. So what have
you learned from your parents? You can
439
00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:19.559
have a really great mentor who could? As as you're developing through an organization,
440
00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:22.840
there's a thing called situational leadership and
it's you really have to look at
441
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:28.599
everything in a particular situation and how
it happens and then breaking down those things.
442
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:35.800
What I think is underrated is managers, leaders who think they who don't
443
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:42.880
really empower their team members, who
don't empower the people in their organizations to
444
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:47.360
contribute. If I answered your question, you did, I think. I
445
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:50.880
think you said a couple of things, but one of the things that I
446
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.000
think I'm going to reflect on more
throughout the days. You're not everyone needs
447
00:34:55.039 --> 00:35:00.039
the label of a leader, but
I think it's someone who can embody humility
448
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:06.679
and a little bit of understanding of
other people, but also just having the
449
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:12.119
ability to take charge when people who
have the label are doing other things and
450
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:16.480
putting out their own fires. It's
being able to think holistically rather than just
451
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.280
logistically. Yeah, that's exactly I
spent a lot of time with the people
452
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:28.440
in each of my departments thinking about
how is what I'm doing today going to
453
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.920
impact marketing? How is what I'm
doing today, you're going to impact fundraising?
454
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:38.360
How is this band that I'm recording? What are the opportunities other than
455
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.480
just putting it up on the website? What? What? What? What?
456
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.079
What? What does that actually mean? And I and I spent a
457
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:50.559
lot of time on that with with
with folks. Accountability is another big thing.
458
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:57.559
Humility, empathy. We the last
couple of years we worked with some
459
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.960
outside folks, work with the Maagement
team here at experience. We do that
460
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:06.239
occasionally and it's great. I love
it, and I kind of learned about
461
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:12.599
this concept of of centering. You
ever hear of this idea about of centering?
462
00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:16.440
So we all come to the table
with our unique perspectives and our unique
463
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:23.480
history and our unique politics and our
unique etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, and
464
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:29.519
that's what we typically center on.
So when we come to conversations, we
465
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:34.519
have our perspective and that's our center
and it's really hard the older you get,
466
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.480
it's really hard to break out of
that. It's really hard to talk
467
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:44.159
about equity and really understand what that
means because you're so used to maybe not
468
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:50.440
being equitable. We're dealing with situations
that are that don't result in equitable opportunities
469
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:54.920
for people or inclusivity or diversity.
It's you could talk diversity, but if
470
00:36:54.920 --> 00:37:00.400
you don't walk diversity. But in
order to walk diversity you have to you
471
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:05.239
have to recognize here are my limitations
and this is what's preventing me to look
472
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:07.599
at the world a different way.
So this, so this notion of centering,
473
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:13.199
is really key and I learned that
the last two years and that's really
474
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:17.320
changed a lot of my thinking about
the world, also recognizing that I'm always
475
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:22.000
still going to bring my sixty four
year old White Guy Jewish perspective, liberal
476
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:27.400
Jewish perspective, to the table.
So how do I reconcile the differences in
477
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.960
the world with WHO I am as
a person and who I I'm old,
478
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:36.159
I'm old, I'm the older yet
the harder it is to change, and
479
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:39.320
it could be argued whether I've been
successful at that. But I think about
480
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:43.880
it a lot and I tried it
do that a lot. There are people
481
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:45.519
who will give me credit for that
and what there are going to be people
482
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:50.199
who won't give me credit for that, and I try to recognize that and
483
00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:52.639
try to try to work on that. I'm going to take that with me.
484
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:57.480
Bruce, you gave me a lot
to think about because I think I
485
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:05.239
think you gave me perspective as well
as as an immigrant woman who's also Brown,
486
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.679
and there's just a lot of different
overlapping circles that goes into your perspective
487
00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:15.039
about things. I would say.
The other thing I would say is as
488
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.800
you're growing, as you're moving on
onward and upward. I say that all
489
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:23.039
the time. As you're moving onward
and upward, it's important to know what
490
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:27.239
battles do you want to pick and
when you get to the boil, if
491
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:31.639
you're ever, I have twenty five
people who were in my departments and there's
492
00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:37.559
lots of ideas every day, lots
of things going on. You have to
493
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:43.280
realize that, even at my managerial
level, I have to pick my battles,
494
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:47.760
I have to make certain decisions.
So, anyway, that's my thing.
495
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.159
So do you have a few minutes? Actually, so, is this
496
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:57.519
part of the all right? So, I don't I don't really know much
497
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:00.440
about you. So give me the
hip. Well, you just told me.
498
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:06.679
I know you're twite five, you're
a woman, immigrant, child and
499
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:08.039
immigrant, all that kind of ship. So what do you want to do?
500
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.480
What do you want to do with
your life? Do you do this?
501
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.760
What do you what do you think? Well, I I'm a therapist
502
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:17.920
by trade. That's my my day
job. So I work with kids and
503
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:22.760
families and do a lot of family
therapy. I work in mental health,
504
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:28.239
but I actually have a company on
the side. It's it's called it's actually
505
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:32.320
think weird. It's the PODCAST,
but it's I'm working as a I guess
506
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:38.079
you can say my formal title is
consultant for different companies. But essentially what
507
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:42.280
I want to do is I want
to mix my love of mental health with
508
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.800
storytelling and empower people with that.
I want to combine it and I want
509
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:53.880
to create a foundation that allows people
to show up embodying just that. They
510
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:59.920
have different stories to tell and I
just don't think there's different therapeutic modalities are
511
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.280
round storytelling. I think there's a
lot about how you think and how you
512
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:07.079
how you're thinking affects the way that
you manage life. But I think I'm
513
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.920
just really fascinated by how to help
people build resiliency despite hard times. So
514
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.000
that's my passion. I'm still trying
to figure out how to go about that,
515
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:19.599
because I did work in radio for
a little bit. I did.
516
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:23.119
Yeah, I volunteered in radio,
similar to how it happened. I worked
517
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:27.320
in restaurants. I was a teacher
for a little bit too. I've just
518
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.519
done a lot of different things and
I still feel I'm figuring myself out.
519
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:35.400
I have a job, but I
just don't think it, I don't think
520
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.440
it's who I am. I'm still
kind of, I feel like, different
521
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:44.679
things and I'm just trying to marry
the two now. So yeah, that
522
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:46.280
was that was my twenties man.
So you're no different than a lot of
523
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:50.880
people. Don't worry about that.
You're pretty focused. It sounds like you're
524
00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:53.360
on a track. That's a great
thing, and not respect them anyway.
525
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:57.840
I don't I know about what are
you doing? We did a pride.
526
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:04.639
We get a project. So we
we worked with additions on call, an
527
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:10.440
organization called musicians on call, and
basically musicians on call is it's a nonprofit
528
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:16.840
that brings music to the bedside of
Terminula patients. Okay, so you're in
529
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:21.880
the hospital, your long term care. We have bands, singers longer and
530
00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:23.760
we're going to the hospital and it's
when you see videos of this ship you
531
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:30.079
just cry because it's so it's so
beautiful and you see people, these people
532
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:35.119
who don't have a lot of life
loan length and their wives lived, just
533
00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:40.719
respond in such emotionally intense ways.
So we fund the program and we're in
534
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:45.239
twelve hospitals in Philadelphia and we had
to stop because of the pandemic, but
535
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:49.840
we're now kind of going back out
there. But it's part as a sub
536
00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:52.440
part of that, and this kind
of speaks to your mental health and storytelling
537
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:58.280
thing. We did this initiative a
few years ago called music heels and we
538
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:05.960
would and it was really storytelling about
how music has helped people heel and I
539
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:10.280
think it's still on our website.
And we interviewed musicians, the rapists,
540
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:15.039
all kinds of people and got their
stories and it was we ran them on
541
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:17.760
the air, we had them website. It's really, really great. We
542
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:22.880
had we talked the foundation people about
all the stuff musicians and it was fantastic.
543
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:27.239
So and we don't hear enough of
that stuff. Music is, I
544
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:31.000
said earlier, it's so powerful.
It's so powerful and it could would change
545
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:35.599
his life. So well, Hey, I wish you all the best.
546
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:38.360
I'm really glad we got a chance. So I never really talk about this
547
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:43.199
kind of stuff with people. So
thank you. So what what do you
548
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:45.880
do now with this? Are you
going to edit it or are you just
549
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:50.039
gonna pout something? Yeah, so
this, I think weird, was not
550
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:54.960
recorded in front of a live studio
audience. This episode was written, produced
551
00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:00.800
and edited by me, Helen Garcia. The platform used to record this podcast
552
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:07.360
was Riverside Dot FM. The podcast
hosting this podcast is sounder DOT FM.
553
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:10.320
Thanks for listening. And this was
a production of think Weird Co by Helen Garcia