Bruce Warren - Turning work into Passion

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:08.160 My Name's Helen Garcia and you're listening to the think weird podcast. My Dad 2 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:13.919 was a sales he hated his life, he hated his freaky job. Growing 3 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:17.920 up, I would seem miserable all the time and a lot of it just 4 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.879 came down to me. I recognized so, like you know, what I 5 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:22.239 want to wake up every morning, to go to sleep every night, like 6 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:26.600 just feeling good about what I do and when I'm contributing to the world. 7 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:33.679 Welcome to think weird. I want to ask you this question. What were 8 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:38.399 you made to do? Better yet, what do you have to do? 9 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:46.759 My guest today is chief of all things from W XPN Radio, Bruce Warren. 10 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:51.920 He is part of the team that started at the legendary World Cafe, 11 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:58.240 and this episode is for the person that might be unsure about what they want 12 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:03.760 to do and, once permission to try and to experiment, to figure out 13 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:08.359 what you've made to do. So, without further ADO, here's my conversation 14 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:12.640 with Bruce. So you started out as an elementary school teacher and then you 15 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:17.319 became a chef for a couple of years and then you were volunteer at Xpn 16 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:21.519 for several years until you finally got the job. I think one of the 17 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:26.280 things I've learned is that you're someone who's utilized so many skill sets and then 18 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:30.000 worked at the same place for thirty five plus years. So can you tell 19 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:36.239 me a little bit about what you got from each profession and how it translates 20 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:40.519 to what you're doing now? My Dad was a salesperson. He hated his 21 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:46.200 life, he hated his freaking job. Growing up I would see him miserable 22 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.480 all the time and I was probably when I didn't even realize that I was 23 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:55.680 forming the future of Bruce Mare, and a lot of it just came down 24 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:57.159 to me. I recognized that I want to wake up every morning and go 25 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:02.000 to sleep every night just feel good about what I do and when I'm contributing 26 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:06.840 to the world. I did a local Ted talk six or seven years ago 27 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:13.520 and I talked about passion. I've always been driven by my passion about what 28 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.639 felt right in my heart and I felt really good about not to avoid the 29 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:22.719 crappy stuff in life, because Lord knows there's been that share of that. 30 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:28.000 So that that's really it. I I as a music can growing up. 31 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:31.800 The first night that I was a volunteer DJ AT W XP N I said, 32 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:35.759 yeah, I gotta learn how to get paid to do this. This 33 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:37.960 is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life, because it's 34 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:42.680 music. I wanted to turn my passion and there's a lot of analogy between 35 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:46.120 kind of what I did in the restaurant business and what I do at Xpn 36 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:53.960 in terms of creativity and helping people get through their day. He said once 37 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:58.080 in an interview with Kevin Schmidlin on Philly, who, I thought I was 38 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.759 going to be an elementary school teacher because I thought education would change the world. 39 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:04.520 I look back at your linkedin profile and you teach it, you pen 40 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:08.240 and you also teach it temple, where you graduated college. What inspired you 41 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:12.919 to start teaching again? Class said I wanted to get back I wanted to 42 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.800 build my world out a little bit more. I left teaching when I graduated 43 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:23.919 college because it's the bureaucracy. I couldn't stand it and it became more about 44 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:29.039 the bureaucracy than it was about helping children develop. My life is very consumed 45 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:36.520 by my work and I wanted something else. Wanted another intellectual and social opportunity 46 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:38.360 because, more on the intellectual side, when I got my message degree, 47 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:44.159 and fifteen years ago. Teaching is also learning. I just sided when you 48 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:47.599 try to teach, get back into teaching and work with students, undergraduates and 49 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:52.479 graduate student. You grew up in Philly your entire life. Why do you 50 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:54.759 stay? What is it about staying in the same city? I love it. 51 00:03:54.759 --> 00:04:00.240 It's diverse, it's small, it's Not New York. I can I'm 52 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.479 diverse things to do with less hassle than New York. I don't know why 53 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:06.560 I'm picking on New York. I never really stayed. I never really stayed 54 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:11.199 there long enough to get a real feel for it, but it's where my 55 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.840 family is. So I've always loved the music of Philly. I've always loved 56 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:19.319 the Culture Philly. I've always I've always loved the politics of Philly, whether 57 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.680 I agree with them or not, and the Culture Philly. So that's why 58 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:29.560 I stayed. He discovered your love of records and riding your bike across different 59 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:34.839 records stores where you are. It's really rare nowadays to stay in one place 60 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:42.240 for that long. I guess I adapted and continue to adapt. I don't 61 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.839 want to be a seven year old budget. I want to go as felt 62 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.120 good. I just turned I know that I'mant a young place in my life 63 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:56.639 where I still have room to grow and discover, and I remember you told 64 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:00.680 the story about starting out your job isn't elementary school teacher, and thinking that 65 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:06.079 you were going to change and revolutionize these kids lives and because of bureaucracy, 66 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:10.720 you realize that you couldn't do that. You shifted. For someone who is 67 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:14.680 looking for that pursuit of happiness, when do you know when to quit and 68 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:18.360 when do you know that it's right? Well, I'll speak from my experiences. 69 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:23.959 I knew you'd go into a career decision or if you decide to get 70 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:28.120 a master's degree in something, it's the further your passion it's to be able 71 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:32.680 to activate the things you love and the things you're passionate about. Bureaucracy killed 72 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:36.720 my love of revolutionizing the world for children. I knew it was time to 73 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:42.600 quit when the bureaucracy was getting too heavy for me in teaching. I I 74 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.959 knew it was time to quit in the restaurant business when I was physically exhausted. 75 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.959 It just got to the point where I just couldn't function anymore. But 76 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:57.360 there are things that inform your decision to quit or incisions to your decisions to 77 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.399 stay. And Hey, listen, I was five months till I was in 78 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.680 the restaurant business. I was making thirty thousand dollars eas year he started making 79 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:11.439 three, three dollars. Remember saying that, yeah, I was making an 80 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:15.279 hour. I tell people that. Now they go, how did you actually 81 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.000 survive? Well, things are much different than economically. Things were very, 82 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:23.360 very much different than and that. And I wanted to live on my own. 83 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:26.160 So I had to figure it out. I went I lived with a 84 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:29.600 friend, but I wanted I didn't want to live at home. So money, 85 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.800 money helps. Money is freedom sometimes. I'm not uger capitalist or anything 86 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:39.839 like that, but so I had to make it work. So I did. 87 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:44.000 I did. I remember I was at the restaurant for three months and 88 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:47.040 I got a ten cent hour raid, ten cent an hour raise, and 89 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:51.199 I felt I was a millionaire. My first job I was making I think 90 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:56.160 six bucks an hour. I was I think I was fourteen years old and 91 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.279 I remember getting fifty bucks that week and and just saving it out. Wow, 92 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:04.839 this is what it feels to make money doing what you love. You're 93 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:09.759 probably a million you probably a millionaire. I'm never going to get that moment 94 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:15.639 back or a thousand a yeah, exactly, but at the heart of everything 95 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:19.319 was I just didn't want to wind up like my dad. We didn't have 96 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:23.480 the greatest relationship in the world, but that being said, I loved him 97 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:29.560 and he took care of me and that's okay. So just being driven by 98 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.920 that kind of stuff. I appreciate your honesty. I feel how we watch 99 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:38.399 our parents really impacts the way we navigate the world. We learned from how 100 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:42.839 they functioned. So for you, I felt one of the reasons why I'm 101 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:46.399 asking you all of these questions is that it's very rare to see someone alive 102 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:50.680 when what they do and the way that you talk about music. You started 103 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:57.439 World Cafe and I live in Los Angeles and I listened to five FM and 104 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:01.639 every every day Raina Durris is on and my favorite interview she did was with 105 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.519 Amy Mann talking about her new album, and it was it was so good 106 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:11.360 and I my question, the burning question I have in my heart right now, 107 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:16.720 is what was the culmination of that idea of starting world cafe in the 108 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.720 team that you were a part of? How did that even begin? Well, 109 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:26.360 it began. So I was volunteer here when so the guy who started 110 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:31.240 world cafe is a guy named mark first and he was W xp n station 111 00:08:31.320 --> 00:08:37.240 manager at the time when I first started and he was hired. So W 112 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:41.200 X men lost its license in the seventies for obscenity and the University of Pennsylvania, 113 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.440 who owns the license to the radio station side that, decided to professionalize 114 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:50.720 the management of the station to make sure that didn't happen and so also grow 115 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:56.320 the audience. So when I first started XP N it was black programming, 116 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:01.879 it was traditional community radio station. It was amazing when I started, but 117 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.200 I joke only say every hour on the hour in the format chain and I 118 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:09.519 did the I did the alternative music show overnight. Well, no, it 119 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:11.840 was rock, but there was a funk show, there was a blue show, 120 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:13.879 there was a folk show, there was a Polka show, there was 121 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:18.879 a lot of games, lesbian music show, there was an Irish music show. 122 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:24.399 It was every flavor of potential music that could exist. I think the 123 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.519 only thing we didn't play was opera. But when mark was hired he brought 124 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:35.240 on some professional djs and they really started to focus. They got rid of 125 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:39.840 something the specialty programming and started doing this mix of music. So I remember 126 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:46.000 one major realization I remember, as an Auntier was going was hearing the world 127 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:52.000 music host get really piste off about playing Peter Gabriel in the mix. So 128 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:58.799 Peter Gabriel ICO more of his more ambient world music flavored stuff, and I 129 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:05.440 was now that makes a lot of sense. Let's play Selif Kaita and whoever 130 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:11.240 else, non English speaking music. It could work with some forms of Western 131 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:16.879 music and popular music. And then you have graceland and Paul Simon and then 132 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:20.840 you have low pbos and then all of a sudden the music world is changing 133 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.879 and all of a sudden xpn we're starting to play a more consistent, very 134 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:31.440 broad eclectic mix of music. So we noticed. Mark noticed that our audience 135 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:37.759 and membership started at the same time. Mark recognized that in public radio classical 136 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:43.200 and Jazz format was on the decline and there were a few stations W XPN, 137 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:48.679 that we're exploring this unique mix of contemporary music with R and B and 138 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:54.399 some world music and singer Songwriters and rock and funk, blues and folk. 139 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.320 There were a few other stations that we're doing what we were doing in the 140 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:05.519 public radio space. So mark was okay, I got this idea let's create 141 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:11.240 a syndicated show that would be based out of Philadelphia that would reflect the the 142 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:15.159 growth of audience that we were seeing here in Philadelphia. And it was originally 143 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:22.279 gonna be a more world flavored music show. But we did some research and 144 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:28.399 we found that the opportunity to grow this part of the public radio music space, 145 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:33.720 Reale or not, world music did not really research. Well, that 146 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.799 didn't mean we were gonna stop playing it, it just meant it was gonna 147 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:43.600 be less in the mix of our overall sound. So mark at Pied to 148 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:48.519 the corporation from public broadcast for our grant to start the show. We've got 149 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:52.840 a million dollars. All the people in public radio who were insanely pissed at 150 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:58.399 us and not happy, because public radio it's all about news. It's all 151 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:03.720 that jazz and classical music. I'm being facetious now. I love my public 152 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:07.080 radio colleagues, I really do. I'm a public radio guy. I say 153 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.879 no more, okay, and we we just that. So starting World Cafe, 154 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:18.120 we started with five stations, xbn. It became the foundation of our 155 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.960 next ten. Five, ten, now thirty years a growth. So to 156 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:26.919 be a part of that we revolutionized public radio. I don't mean to sound 157 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:31.720 a freaking ego maniac here. I'm a very humble I'm a very humble person, 158 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:37.480 but we revolutionized public radio and in many ways we gave voice to musicians 159 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.639 that would not have gotten that voice to showcase their music because commercial radio at 160 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:52.159 the time completely was in the crapper. So as commercial radio music formats got 161 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.080 tighter and tighter and tighter, that was our opportunity and we seized on that 162 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:03.200 opportunity in Philly and through world cafe. I'm a huge fan of world cafe. 163 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:05.120 Well, thank you. That's the answer to your question. Yeah, 164 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:11.399 and it's it's interesting because I feel the world cafe has almost evolved with the 165 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:16.120 times and it I think it the model that you've built and that has evolved 166 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.759 through through it all. You can listen online, you can listen on podcasts, 167 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.240 people can listen to the latest music and old music. It just has 168 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:30.759 a good mix of different contemporary sound. Question for you, then, Bruce's. 169 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:35.600 How have you, how have you adapted to the changing times, because 170 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:41.440 we've changed from analog to digital, we've changed from people largely listening to radio 171 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:46.639 to now TV to like now we have the computer on our phones. How 172 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.080 do you continue and evolve with the rapid change in technology now in the twenty 173 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:58.440 one century? I probably spend almost every second of my waking days thinking about 174 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:03.559 that and you have to think short, medium and long term around that kind 175 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.559 of stuff and you have to surround and you have to surround yourself, as 176 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:11.720 we have at Xpn, with really good, great people. So, Hey, 177 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:16.559 listen, at the dawn of the music blog era, fifteen years ago 178 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.879 I I jumped into the Internet very, very I was a very early adapter 179 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:26.600 and I was an older early adapter and I saw again, I'm not a 180 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:28.879 freaking visionary or anything, but I saw a lot of this stuff coming. 181 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:35.759 I saw so I started a music blog, whatever it was, some velvet 182 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.240 blog, because I as a fan. I saw music fans starting these music 183 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:46.360 websites and sharing music. I was Whoa this this is, this is, 184 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:50.200 this is, this is this, this is crazy. This is not the 185 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:56.519 music industry forcing ship down people's throats. This is real fan, the fan. 186 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:05.000 So the fan economy really inspired my embracing of technology and digital and social 187 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:09.399 I tell this. I tell this story not regularly, but I remember the 188 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.399 dawn of twitter. I was there I was there. I decided we were 189 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:18.200 going to do a call in show. How people call into a radio station. 190 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.120 I decided we're gonna WE'RE gonna do a tweet in show and it was 191 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:26.440 a disaster. There was. It was. It was a disaster because we 192 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:30.200 were too early. There weren't enough people on twitter at the time. So 193 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.960 yeah, but so on a certain level we jumped in kind of early and 194 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:39.080 you learned from that kind of stuff. So a lot of how do you 195 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:45.200 when to do x, Y or Z, particularly to your point about the 196 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.159 landscape evolving so quickly? A lot of it is timing. A lot of 197 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:54.840 it is timing. It's expensive. So you you have to head your bed 198 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.840 bets. I look at k x t and the phenomenal job they've done with 199 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:03.919 video. They sort of made a bet, they threw down on video in 200 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.360 the very early days of video and they're very successful because of it. So 201 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:15.240 it really requires some thought, leadership, some great management, and we've had 202 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:18.080 that at the radio station and and and leadership at all levels, not just 203 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:23.480 the boss. So I encourage. Doesn't always happened, but I encourage all 204 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:30.200 all my people in my programming, digital and social. It's you don't have 205 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.639 to be a buss to make change, but leadership at all levels. I'm 206 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:38.440 a huge believer in that. When like come to me with ideas and we'll 207 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:42.279 talk about them. Yeah, can you? Can you tell that story about 208 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:47.279 when you meet a Zine and wrote it by hand? Can you tell that 209 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:51.799 story? Yeah, that's how I actually got into the business. So I 210 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.559 was always the guy in my group of friends who was always onto new music, 211 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.679 and I did that because I read a lot of British music magazines and 212 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:03.599 I would like I would spend hours and a lot of money at record stores 213 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:08.920 when those folks who worked in record stores were really they were the taste makers 214 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:12.400 and the curators. So I was always knowing about all the stuff and I 215 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:15.640 was turning my friends onto this band, that band whatever. And one day 216 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.559 I just decided I'm gonna just start writing about music. So I started a 217 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:26.480 fanzine, which is a fan magazine and and in the early days of the 218 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:30.839 music blog sphere was just another it was just another they were music fanzines, 219 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:37.400 but they were on the Internet. So I would hand literally hand right five 220 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:44.319 ten page fanzine. I would write about I would do record reviews, I'd 221 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:49.559 write some way and read them now and I'd go you're overblown, overblown, 222 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:55.960 overthought music critic pieces. I wanted to be a great tape and I wanted 223 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.759 to be Robert Chris Gall in the village place, and I never, ever, 224 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.480 ever, had any one million of their talent. So it got to 225 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.319 the point where I was mailing out a hundred of these at a time and 226 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:11.160 then it got to the point word of mouth, whatever, and I'm in 227 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.319 a club one night with a friend who was actually a music writer who said 228 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.799 you can get paid, you can get paid for this, and I was 229 00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:25.920 I never thought of that. So I started as a music journalist. I 230 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:30.079 was I did go to school for it. I just loved the right and 231 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.680 I learned from the greats and I started writing for the weekly, the Philadelphia 232 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:38.079 weekly here in the city paper, and then I did some writing for the 233 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:44.559 Philadelphia Inquirer and I did some stuff for some national music magazines and I wasn't 234 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:47.359 paid very well for it, but that led me to connect with somebody who 235 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:52.240 worked at XPN. So good and that worst, and that's how it all 236 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:56.640 worked out. I just followed when I just I did the fancy when I 237 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:02.160 was in the restaurant business. I would go do my overnight shift at XPN 238 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:06.160 and play whatever the hell I wanted to play. And as a Montier, 239 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:08.640 I wasn't really involved with the radio station. I literally showed up at eleven 240 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:12.400 o'clock and left after my shift and I didn't know how it worked and I 241 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:17.440 didn't understand that radio. I didn't know any of that stuff. So I 242 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:21.440 learned. How did you how did you work at the restaurant business, because 243 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:25.880 I used to work at the restaurant business for years and it's exhausting. And 244 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:30.400 then after that you would go to the radio stations at eleven o'clock at night. 245 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.440 So what would your schedule look? Well, I would usually go in. 246 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.920 I I used to work, I used to cook dinner, and most 247 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:40.279 of the staff for dinner would come in at two or three o'clock and we'd 248 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:45.640 be done by ten or ten thirty and I would literally hustle over to xpn 249 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:48.319 literally thirty minutes after you were done working. Yeah, well, was it 250 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:52.839 was fearby, so I didn't know about it. Yeah, did you have 251 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.920 to go ahead? No, I was. I did not stop for dinner 252 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.359 because I hated the restaurants. I like that. At that time, I 253 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.960 got well thought out. I had it very well thought out. Oh good, 254 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.240 good, because I'm thinking about you're working all day in the restaurant. 255 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.880 You might stink or smell and then you're just you showed up in your restaurant 256 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.599 clothes or you just always had a bag to change. I always had a 257 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.400 bag to change. I would I would stink and spell, but there's nobody 258 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:25.200 here. Only there was only the other DJ on who was on before me. 259 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.319 Yeah, and you were. You were in charge of rock. There 260 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:37.119 were eight of us who did this show. I remember a good chunk of 261 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:42.119 my first year. I followed a guy who did a metal show. He 262 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:47.559 was a penn student and I remember, and there were no CDs at that 263 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:51.759 point. It was just vinyl, and I remember the first couple of times 264 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.240 and I remember I would always wait for the show to finish because I couldn't 265 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:57.119 stand. It was so loud. I just couldn't stand in the studio. 266 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.720 But what first couple of Dacks I've got. I would whenever I would go 267 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:07.920 in the studio and he he was a huge fan of steed metal and I 268 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.960 remember walking into the studio one night and like, have you ever seen the 269 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:15.400 vinyl turntables and have a strobe light to control the speed of the turntable. 270 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:21.799 Okay, he actually always had it faster. So he had steed metal going 271 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:29.680 incrementally even faster by the strobe light, and I never actually asked him about 272 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:33.079 it because I didn't want him to think I was being critical. Dude, 273 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:38.480 what are you doing? How much more faster do you want it? Quite 274 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:44.359 literally, speed, speed metal. It's crazy. Yeah, which the Genre 275 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:49.759 Music? It's it's fantastic. If you're I totally respect it. I don't 276 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:55.160 seek it out, but I respect so you figured out that it was at 277 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.920 it was increased speed when you first started playing music? Did it? Did 278 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.599 TURD tape? Did you figure it out by playing your first song or how 279 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:06.279 did that happen? Oh, no, I well, I knew to reset 280 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:11.640 the stroke light so that it played at it either the forty five or thirty 281 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:15.920 three pace that it needed to play. Yeah, yeah, what do you 282 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:19.920 think? What's what's so funny? Are you just remembering? Yeah, I 283 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:25.240 just think it's really funny. I just I have very selective memory as I 284 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:27.160 get older. I still have a lot more members, but I have very 285 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.200 selective memories and that one always sticks out than that. I walked in on 286 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:33.960 rich poor. That was his name, rich. That was the name rich 287 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.960 poor. Yeah, just speed metal records, going it twice to speed. 288 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:44.400 It's crazy. Yeah, I grew up with my dad teaching me a lot 289 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.759 about rock music. He grew up in the Philippines and I come from an 290 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.640 immigrant family, but every single time the Beatles song would come on, or 291 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.640 a BG Song or an Eagle Song, he would tell me how old he 292 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.200 was when it came on. He's like, I remember being twelve and that 293 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.920 song coming on and Earl and asking her out on a date because of that. 294 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.799 It's just music is one of those things that it just has this very 295 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.400 visceral memory where you remember exactly where you were, what you were doing, 296 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:18.680 what happened, and we attenuate sound with a memory. And I remember being 297 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.400 eight years old and asking my dad if we go to best buy and Buy 298 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:27.079 Hillary Duff C D because of Disney channel, and we passed by a John 299 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:32.079 Lennon C D and he looks over and he's like, oh my gosh and 300 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:36.440 he he picks it up and I look over and him how's who's this guy 301 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:41.960 with weird glasses and he's don't you ever and he educates me on on the 302 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:47.000 music, but it's just one of those things that it's always going to be 303 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:51.880 there and it's it's going to change over time, but music is is a 304 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.960 universal language that I will never go away. Yeah, my oldest son, 305 00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:03.359 my oldest son, is my yeah, my youngest son is twenty three and 306 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:06.839 we all love music. We all love all kinds of music and I went 307 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:10.960 through all the Disney stuff and I went through L M F A oh and 308 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.839 I went and I would take them the shows. They were meet and greets 309 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.319 out the while, all American rejects. Imagine dragon all of it. There 310 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.599 was a period of time. Do you remember who let the dogs out by 311 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:25.599 the Baha bed? Okay, that song was huge. That song was huge. 312 00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:27.039 I think there was a period of time for three months in a row, 313 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.240 that's the only record my kids played. They drove us nuts. It 314 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:37.839 drove crazy. They okay, so the Baha men just announced a tour and 315 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:44.920 they're coming to Philadelphia. So in a couple of weeks. I was with 316 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.240 my kids the other night, we were at a show together actually, and 317 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:51.200 I said to him, I was like, guys, you never believe he's 318 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:56.000 playing Philly. The Baha men are coming and you're kidding me. We gotta 319 00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:02.240 get tickets and I'm and that that's too your point. It's they ever, 320 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:06.400 they probably haven't listened to bomb then in years, but they've associate, they 321 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.559 associate music with memory. And it was, and my oldest son is and 322 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:15.519 still was and still is a huge Jonas brothers fan. They played in Philly 323 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.519 whatever the last year after the pandemic and the show got canceled. They were 324 00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.599 supposed to play and they got rescheduled and he called me. He goes dead. 325 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.519 Guess what I got? Jonas brothers tickets. was still the Jonas. 326 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.079 Probably they're good. They're good, all the Jonas brothers. They do what 327 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.960 they do well, they do what they do. That's that's that's to your 328 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.960 point. You know. Yeah, and it follows you too. I actually 329 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.960 my sister loves old, old, old music, seventies, sixties, fifties 330 00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:48.000 music, and she got me into that. I forgot what amy man's old 331 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.680 band was called. What do you remember what it was called? Tuesday, 332 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:55.440 till Tuesday. Yeah, I fell in love with that song and then I 333 00:25:55.480 --> 00:26:00.599 started watching Magnolia and I was like, what the heck, this person has 334 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:07.640 followed its amazing upward trajectory. But I'm getting off topic because I want to 335 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:11.319 follow up with you about this question. Now that you're a teacher and you've 336 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.640 been through all of this stuff, you kind of learned everything on your own. 337 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:21.559 The music, journalism, the XPN, doing radio, nothing was you 338 00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:25.920 never learned this in an academic setting. And now that you're a teacher, 339 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:30.640 what do you teach your students or what things is important for you for them 340 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:38.160 to learn at the experience? Focus and work on helping my students if they 341 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:44.960 don't already understand the importance of internships and volunteering and getting some real hands on 342 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.279 experience, because I could teach them all this ship in the world. I 343 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:52.559 could teach somebody how to use whatever, use an editing tool. I can, 344 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:56.640 and most of the students who are undergraduate temple, they're twenty years old. 345 00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:59.759 They know how to do that stuff now anyway, because it's all about 346 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:04.160 tech, not so my whole thing is go into the try to go into 347 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.279 the real world and find out where you don't and find out what you do. 348 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.799 And it's okay. You might have a very hazy idea of what you 349 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.119 want to do, but you want to get into this thing called the music 350 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:21.400 business or production or engineering or whatever, find out what you don't. I 351 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:25.160 when I when I was volunteer, the one thing I learned was I was 352 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:30.440 never really going to be a great dj and that that was a major revelation. 353 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.599 But I knew I wanted to stay in music, so I decided to 354 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.960 stay in the back of the house. So that's it. I think experiential 355 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:44.240 stuff is really, really key. And the other thing is I make a 356 00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:48.640 really big point of telling them that I am in the classroom to learn as 357 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:55.759 well, and then I expect them to contribute with that frame of mind. 358 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.920 Just don't sit there. People engage, talk, ask me questions, don't 359 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:06.839 be afraid. So I think that's that's the clime everything. And I help 360 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:08.240 a lot of my students. They don't know how, they don't know how 361 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:14.799 to get through the door. Um and and part I love that part of 362 00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:18.759 my job. It's not even I love that's part of giving back. Do 363 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:22.559 you still have live shows at the station with even with the covid pandemic and 364 00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:27.680 stuff, or is everything gone virtual? We're back to mostly normal bands, 365 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:33.839 aren't? Bands are touring now. They're still somewhat hesitant to do in person 366 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:40.079 stuff, although every Friday we have a live broadcast with a band in our 367 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:44.440 building free at noon. It's called. So every Friday at noon eastern time, 368 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.519 we have a live band in the studio. We do local bands. 369 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:52.720 Yeah, it's it's great. Yeah, it's great. That's awesome. I 370 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.480 love how you give people a chance because I think that a lot of the 371 00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:02.559 times you hear the same bands playing over and over and it's just nice knowing 372 00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.960 that you you play local bands. But help me, help me understand, 373 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.599 bruce, what chief of all the things means, because that's your title. 374 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.319 Yeah, well, everybody's got a title in their signature, technically on the 375 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:22.960 assistant station manager, but when people people externally, people, excellent music business 376 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:27.799 people, they have no idea. What if I say I'm the program there, 377 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:32.279 they have no idea what it what it means. They kind of don't 378 00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:36.279 even know what assistant station manager needs. I was thinking about that, I 379 00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:40.599 don't know, one day a bunch of years ago and somebody asked me. 380 00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:42.279 So what do you actually do? It XP? I just do a lot 381 00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:47.759 of stuff. I do programming, I do digital, I work with our 382 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:52.079 marketing people, I work with our fundraising people, I I I tweet, 383 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.319 I do a lot of stuff. Ultimately, though, I am responsible for 384 00:29:56.359 --> 00:30:00.680 all the programming, all the content, the distribution of it, digital stuff 385 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.200 on our website, the social media. I'm executive producer World Cafe and I 386 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:08.160 don't do a lot of day to day stuff. I we have we have 387 00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:14.079 amazing we have the best radio station staff in the world. So I'm not 388 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:15.279 that and not in the day to day stuff. I go to a lot 389 00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.480 of meetings. I go to a lot of editor we do editorial meetings. 390 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.680 I have conversations with the hosts, a bottle cool ship we want to do. 391 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.240 We have a music meeting every week where some of the hosts get together 392 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:29.599 and we talked about music and we decide what we're gonna play. Similarly with 393 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.160 World Cafe, which side on, what we want to book, who we 394 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.119 want to book and special programming features we're gonna do. So I'm I'm kind 395 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.839 of more involved in medium the longer term stuff and I do a lot of 396 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:47.400 long term planning. So now I'm thinking mostly about the second half of the 397 00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:52.680 calendar year in in terms of special, special programming that we that we're gonna 398 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.279 do working with the staff to come up with new ideas and I got a 399 00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:03.240 couple of hires that I'm working on now, so I actually have one higher 400 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:06.799 than I'm working on now. We just launched a new website. I'm working 401 00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:11.079 with marketing and digital folks too elevate that and get an understanding of what people 402 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:17.920 what the user experiences are and what content is, is working and how we're 403 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.279 going to reflect more variety and diversity of local Philadelphia music community. I'm big 404 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.839 into the data, but informs the decisions but it doesn't drive them all. 405 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.559 So that's a lot of what I do, but I'm I'm very involved in 406 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:33.359 other parts of the station because it's about the music, it's about the program 407 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:40.240 so that drives. That drives everything. The programming drives everything. So I 408 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:45.799 think now my mind is because of how much planning really goes into everything that 409 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.680 you do and how many people that you work with throughout the day. And 410 00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.640 it just brings me back to what you said, where you really encourage leadership 411 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:57.920 at all levels and you really believe in that. For me, who I 412 00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:02.039 feel like I'm just starting out in my career and I'm still figuring out who 413 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:07.720 I am. How do I embody and for people listening who want longevity in 414 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:13.440 their careers, how do they embody leadership at all levels? I try to 415 00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:19.680 create an environment where people feel they have a seat at the table and their 416 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:25.079 ideas are welcome and no idea is a bad idea. I think in organizations 417 00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:31.279 that's really crucial for people to be able to feel they can exhibit qualities of 418 00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:36.640 leadership. It's not just coming up with ideas, it's coming up with ideas 419 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:39.519 and thinking what are the implications of this? There's also creative problem solving the 420 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:45.640 quality of leadership I would love more people to embrace and understand and work on 421 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:51.400 and being open to taking risks and being open to learning from your mistakes. 422 00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:55.039 It's being in a meeting when you're not really talking but you're really listening to 423 00:32:55.119 --> 00:33:00.759 what everybody is saying. There's a big difference between just somebody who sits in 424 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:06.000 a meeting goes but I think versus. Here's what I think. I've done 425 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:12.559 some analysis and here's my recommendation for moving forward. That's really important. Yeah, 426 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:17.079 having the humility to listen to what other people have to say coming up. 427 00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:20.640 Yeah, thanks, that was the word I have a searching for. 428 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:27.400 Humility is massive. Yeah, I want to end with this. What is 429 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.680 the most underrated leadership quality that needs to be spoken about more, and what 430 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:36.079 is the most overrated one? Well, I think overrated. Communicate effectively is 431 00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:39.160 overrated because a lot of people don't communicate effectively, but it's also important. 432 00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:45.440 I don't people talking about emotional intelligence like that's a that's a major thing. 433 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:50.440 Thinking about how people are feeling, you know, examining how you what you 434 00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:57.079 say and how your behavior impacts other people, responding versus reacting. That all 435 00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:01.000 that ship is in emotional intelligence, and I still think that's underrated because people 436 00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.480 don't really you look, a lot of people learn. They don't wear that 437 00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.320 in school. You developed that over time. You start to you learn stuff 438 00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:13.719 from your parents. So what have you learned from your parents? You can 439 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:19.559 have a really great mentor who could? As as you're developing through an organization, 440 00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:22.840 there's a thing called situational leadership and it's you really have to look at 441 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:28.599 everything in a particular situation and how it happens and then breaking down those things. 442 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:35.800 What I think is underrated is managers, leaders who think they who don't 443 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:42.880 really empower their team members, who don't empower the people in their organizations to 444 00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:47.360 contribute. If I answered your question, you did, I think. I 445 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:50.880 think you said a couple of things, but one of the things that I 446 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.000 think I'm going to reflect on more throughout the days. You're not everyone needs 447 00:34:55.039 --> 00:35:00.039 the label of a leader, but I think it's someone who can embody humility 448 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:06.679 and a little bit of understanding of other people, but also just having the 449 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:12.119 ability to take charge when people who have the label are doing other things and 450 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:16.480 putting out their own fires. It's being able to think holistically rather than just 451 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.280 logistically. Yeah, that's exactly I spent a lot of time with the people 452 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:28.440 in each of my departments thinking about how is what I'm doing today going to 453 00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.920 impact marketing? How is what I'm doing today, you're going to impact fundraising? 454 00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:38.360 How is this band that I'm recording? What are the opportunities other than 455 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.480 just putting it up on the website? What? What? What? What? 456 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.079 What? What does that actually mean? And I and I spent a 457 00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:50.559 lot of time on that with with with folks. Accountability is another big thing. 458 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:57.559 Humility, empathy. We the last couple of years we worked with some 459 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.960 outside folks, work with the Maagement team here at experience. We do that 460 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:06.239 occasionally and it's great. I love it, and I kind of learned about 461 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:12.599 this concept of of centering. You ever hear of this idea about of centering? 462 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:16.440 So we all come to the table with our unique perspectives and our unique 463 00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:23.480 history and our unique politics and our unique etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, and 464 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:29.519 that's what we typically center on. So when we come to conversations, we 465 00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:34.519 have our perspective and that's our center and it's really hard the older you get, 466 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.480 it's really hard to break out of that. It's really hard to talk 467 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:44.159 about equity and really understand what that means because you're so used to maybe not 468 00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:50.440 being equitable. We're dealing with situations that are that don't result in equitable opportunities 469 00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:54.920 for people or inclusivity or diversity. It's you could talk diversity, but if 470 00:36:54.920 --> 00:37:00.400 you don't walk diversity. But in order to walk diversity you have to you 471 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:05.239 have to recognize here are my limitations and this is what's preventing me to look 472 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:07.599 at the world a different way. So this, so this notion of centering, 473 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:13.199 is really key and I learned that the last two years and that's really 474 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:17.320 changed a lot of my thinking about the world, also recognizing that I'm always 475 00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:22.000 still going to bring my sixty four year old White Guy Jewish perspective, liberal 476 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:27.400 Jewish perspective, to the table. So how do I reconcile the differences in 477 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.960 the world with WHO I am as a person and who I I'm old, 478 00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:36.159 I'm old, I'm the older yet the harder it is to change, and 479 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:39.320 it could be argued whether I've been successful at that. But I think about 480 00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:43.880 it a lot and I tried it do that a lot. There are people 481 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:45.519 who will give me credit for that and what there are going to be people 482 00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:50.199 who won't give me credit for that, and I try to recognize that and 483 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:52.639 try to try to work on that. I'm going to take that with me. 484 00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:57.480 Bruce, you gave me a lot to think about because I think I 485 00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:05.239 think you gave me perspective as well as as an immigrant woman who's also Brown, 486 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:09.679 and there's just a lot of different overlapping circles that goes into your perspective 487 00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:15.039 about things. I would say. The other thing I would say is as 488 00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.800 you're growing, as you're moving on onward and upward. I say that all 489 00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:23.039 the time. As you're moving onward and upward, it's important to know what 490 00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:27.239 battles do you want to pick and when you get to the boil, if 491 00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:31.639 you're ever, I have twenty five people who were in my departments and there's 492 00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:37.559 lots of ideas every day, lots of things going on. You have to 493 00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:43.280 realize that, even at my managerial level, I have to pick my battles, 494 00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:47.760 I have to make certain decisions. So, anyway, that's my thing. 495 00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.159 So do you have a few minutes? Actually, so, is this 496 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:57.519 part of the all right? So, I don't I don't really know much 497 00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:00.440 about you. So give me the hip. Well, you just told me. 498 00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:06.679 I know you're twite five, you're a woman, immigrant, child and 499 00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:08.039 immigrant, all that kind of ship. So what do you want to do? 500 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.480 What do you want to do with your life? Do you do this? 501 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.760 What do you what do you think? Well, I I'm a therapist 502 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:17.920 by trade. That's my my day job. So I work with kids and 503 00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:22.760 families and do a lot of family therapy. I work in mental health, 504 00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:28.239 but I actually have a company on the side. It's it's called it's actually 505 00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:32.320 think weird. It's the PODCAST, but it's I'm working as a I guess 506 00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:38.079 you can say my formal title is consultant for different companies. But essentially what 507 00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:42.280 I want to do is I want to mix my love of mental health with 508 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.800 storytelling and empower people with that. I want to combine it and I want 509 00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:53.880 to create a foundation that allows people to show up embodying just that. They 510 00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:59.920 have different stories to tell and I just don't think there's different therapeutic modalities are 511 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.280 round storytelling. I think there's a lot about how you think and how you 512 00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:07.079 how you're thinking affects the way that you manage life. But I think I'm 513 00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.920 just really fascinated by how to help people build resiliency despite hard times. So 514 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.000 that's my passion. I'm still trying to figure out how to go about that, 515 00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:19.599 because I did work in radio for a little bit. I did. 516 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:23.119 Yeah, I volunteered in radio, similar to how it happened. I worked 517 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:27.320 in restaurants. I was a teacher for a little bit too. I've just 518 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.519 done a lot of different things and I still feel I'm figuring myself out. 519 00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:35.400 I have a job, but I just don't think it, I don't think 520 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.440 it's who I am. I'm still kind of, I feel like, different 521 00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:44.679 things and I'm just trying to marry the two now. So yeah, that 522 00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:46.280 was that was my twenties man. So you're no different than a lot of 523 00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:50.880 people. Don't worry about that. You're pretty focused. It sounds like you're 524 00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:53.360 on a track. That's a great thing, and not respect them anyway. 525 00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:57.840 I don't I know about what are you doing? We did a pride. 526 00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:04.639 We get a project. So we we worked with additions on call, an 527 00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:10.440 organization called musicians on call, and basically musicians on call is it's a nonprofit 528 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:16.840 that brings music to the bedside of Terminula patients. Okay, so you're in 529 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:21.880 the hospital, your long term care. We have bands, singers longer and 530 00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:23.760 we're going to the hospital and it's when you see videos of this ship you 531 00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:30.079 just cry because it's so it's so beautiful and you see people, these people 532 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:35.119 who don't have a lot of life loan length and their wives lived, just 533 00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:40.719 respond in such emotionally intense ways. So we fund the program and we're in 534 00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:45.239 twelve hospitals in Philadelphia and we had to stop because of the pandemic, but 535 00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:49.840 we're now kind of going back out there. But it's part as a sub 536 00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:52.440 part of that, and this kind of speaks to your mental health and storytelling 537 00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:58.280 thing. We did this initiative a few years ago called music heels and we 538 00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:05.960 would and it was really storytelling about how music has helped people heel and I 539 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:10.280 think it's still on our website. And we interviewed musicians, the rapists, 540 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:15.039 all kinds of people and got their stories and it was we ran them on 541 00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:17.760 the air, we had them website. It's really, really great. We 542 00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:22.880 had we talked the foundation people about all the stuff musicians and it was fantastic. 543 00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:27.239 So and we don't hear enough of that stuff. Music is, I 544 00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:31.000 said earlier, it's so powerful. It's so powerful and it could would change 545 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:35.599 his life. So well, Hey, I wish you all the best. 546 00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:38.360 I'm really glad we got a chance. So I never really talk about this 547 00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:43.199 kind of stuff with people. So thank you. So what what do you 548 00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:45.880 do now with this? Are you going to edit it or are you just 549 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:50.039 gonna pout something? Yeah, so this, I think weird, was not 550 00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:54.960 recorded in front of a live studio audience. This episode was written, produced 551 00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:00.800 and edited by me, Helen Garcia. The platform used to record this podcast 552 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:07.360 was Riverside Dot FM. The podcast hosting this podcast is sounder DOT FM. 553 00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:10.320 Thanks for listening. And this was a production of think Weird Co by Helen Garcia